Addicts, reveal yourselves

[opposik]

Did you set out to do this as a money making exercise or do you just enjoy trading?

I never started any of this with the goal of making money in mind. I put enjoyment first and foremost and I definitely get some enjoyment from trading and making the money was just a bonus. Saying that though, I got bored of trading after a while and haven't been trading in a while.

Would you have traded if you knew it would work out to be $1 / hour?

When I first began trading, I never knew that you could make money from it. I traded initially with the goal of collecting every hat and weapon in the game (which I did achieve at one point).

I first found out that money could be made from trading after someone offered me $90 for a scorching modest I had. When I realized later that I could've sold that hat for $500-700, I did some research and found out that there was a huge market for selling tf2 items and that's when I began to devote more time into trading.

In hindsight though, US1 per hour seems like a paltry sum, but the majority of my logged tf2 hours were spent playing rather than trading (I believe had about 1000 hours clocked before trading even came out)and even then I had fun while trading so its not all that bad.

Can I ask how old you are and if you work a regular job too?

I'm currently in my early twenties and in my last year studying at university. I've had several part time jobs throughout my time at uni as well though.

I'm curious because the basic skills in hat trading are applicable to a lot of real world fields where you can make serious money. http://moot.mooh.org/archives/2011/03/h ... world.html

Interesting article, and I do agree that a lot of the skills are transferable to the real world. I made the majority of my profits through buying low and selling high though. I would buy an item in bulk (usually commodities such as metal/keys), for example earbuds for ~27 keys each, and sell them at a premium, at about 29-30 keys each. A few of my friends are doing the exact same by importing products in bulk from Asia and selling them online on sites such as EBay. I've been tempted to do the same but it seems like a lot of work and definitely not as fun

[Remy Lebeau]

I did something very similar with tf2 trading .... I have around 1.5k hours, and when I cashed out, sold most of my stuff for around $500.

Again, I've played a LOT that wasn't trading, mostly surfing

[Jez]

$0, unless we're counting buying the orange box in the first place.

[flabcab]

I haven't checked but i'm confident I haven't spent more then $40 and it was all on keys just wanted to get some strange weapons.

Paid $7.50 for the Orange Box and have clocked just over 400 so I woul dsay i've gotten some extremely good value for money.

[MunchY]

I don't know if I could ever justify dropping the amounts of money you guys have.
I've spent 4.98US on 2 keys, just to see what all the fuss was about. Felt like a sucker shortly after and I have never felt the need to buy from the store again. It seems so pointless. You all might have glowing hats and new weapons, but they're not gonna save you from my knife in your back.
Then again, does anyone even play the game for the FPS anymore?

[goosmurf]

Felt like a sucker shortly after and I have never felt the need to buy from the store again. It seems so pointless. You all might have glowing hats and new weapons, but they're not gonna save you from my knife in your back.

I think there's a few different thoughts mixed in here. You don't *need* to buy weapons from the store because the random drops gives you enough variety to play with, and gives you hats, paints and whatever else too.

The variety of weapons serves a greater purpose than play advantage. They're mostly side grades so I view their primary purpose as allowing players to choose their individual play style. e.g. do you want to be a spy with the classic watch and play ninja backstabber, or do you want to be a DR spy who perhaps focuses on the enemy teleporters? *insert 1001 arguments here about which is more skilless* The variety in play styles also creates game longevity.

The cosmetic items also add to the gameplay IMHO, and although you say "they're not gonna save you from my knife in your back" perhaps in jest, I suggest they actually do to some extent.

I play with the same group of regulars almost every night. I can recognise Pwny pyro because of her pink Madame Dixie. Or "gsan forever cake" heavy because of his green hat. These are players I'd prefer to hang around (ceteris paribus) because they're smart spy checkers (and I main medic). Neither has spent much in the in-game store BTW.

This is all in addition to earlier comments about simply wanting to support future development, even though it's not strictly necessary[1].

So it makes sense to feel like a sucker if you don't feel that any of the above applies to you.

[1] Gabe's been quoted in the past saying that one of the reasons TF2 went F2P is that even the people who don't pay money are still creating value simply by playing the game -- you pay in time, providing yourself as a player for others to play with. There's a very interesting subtle distinction between "free to play" and "free".

[MunchY]

Felt like a sucker shortly after and I have never felt the need to buy from the store again. It seems so pointless. You all might have glowing hats and new weapons, but they're not gonna save you from my knife in your back.

I think there's a few different thoughts mixed in here. You don't *need* to buy weapons from the store because the random drops gives you enough variety to play with, and gives you hats, paints and whatever else too.

I didn't really purchase the keys for droppable items :>

The variety of weapons serves a greater purpose than play advantage. They're mostly side grades so I view their primary purpose as allowing players to choose their individual play style. e.g. do you want to be a spy with the classic watch and play ninja backstabber, or do you want to be a DR spy who perhaps focuses on the enemy teleporters? *insert 1001 arguments here about which is more skilless* The variety in play styles also creates game longevity.

You could also argue trying to obtain the weapons through drops and crafts would add to the longevity of the game.. AND ultimately the rewarding feeling when you actually get them. Rather than chucking an unnecessary amount of hard-earned cash down on release-day.

The cosmetic items also add to the gameplay IMHO, and although you say "they're not gonna save you from my knife in your back" perhaps in jest, I suggest they actually do to some extent.

I play with the same group of regulars almost every night. I can recognise Pwny pyro because of her pink Madame Dixie. Or "gsan forever cake" heavy because of his green hat. These are players I'd prefer to hang around (ceteris paribus) because they're smart spy checkers (and I main medic). Neither has spent much in the in-game store BTW.

That's fair enough that you recognize them because of the cosmetic items and I've really got nothing against having hats and all that. I just personally wouldn't pay RL money for my guy on an FPS to have a little hat on. I've been playing FPS games for a little bit now, and I can easily recognize my mates without them wearing big goofy hats . In fact basing communication and locating my team on the shape/colour of their hat seems completely foreign to me!

Anyway, I'm only speaking for myself. I could never justify spending over a thousand dollars on making my characters on an FPS game look unique. Or buying weapons that I can craft/find for free given a few more hours play-time. You could probably feed a small village for a year with that cash. We all know Gabe doesn't need to be fed.

[Bicketybam]

I could never justify spending over a thousand dollars on making my characters on an FPS game look unique.

I wouldn't do it either in one payment, it would be absurd. But many people spend more then $10 a week on things that they think nothing about spending that money on.

Would any one spend more then $10 per week on alcohol? On smokes? On some other luxury item?

[MunchY]

I could never justify spending over a thousand dollars on making my characters on an FPS game look unique.

I wouldn't do it either in one payment, it would be absurd. But many people spend more then $10 a week on things that they think nothing about spending that money on.

Would any one spend more then $10 per week on alcohol? On smokes? On some other luxury item?

I'm weird I guess. I don't see them as comparable..
I don't see how pretty pixels on my characters head are a luxury item - in comparison to delicious beer in the real world.

This is definitely going to have to be an 'agree to disagree' situation as neither of us are really wrong or right.. We all have different priorities.

[goosmurf]

I could never justify spending over a thousand dollars on making my characters on an FPS game look unique.

I wouldn't do it either in one payment, it would be absurd. But many people spend more then $10 a week on things that they think nothing about spending that money on.

Would any one spend more then $10 per week on alcohol? On smokes? On some other luxury item?

I'm weird I guess. I don't see them as comparable..
I don't see how pretty pixels on my characters head are a luxury item - in comparison to delicious beer in the real world.

This is definitely going to have to be an 'agree to disagree' situation as neither of us are really wrong or right.. We all have different priorities.

The comparison angle is that they are both "discretionary expenses". By definition: expenses that are not essential *needs*.

You hit the nail on the head before by comparing the relative value of virtual items vs "feeding a small village". The latter would still be a discretionary expense but something you value more than a virtual hat.

The trouble with that definition of a discretionary expense, and much of economics, is that people aren't rational

[Glinn Mgraw]

I have spent $0 on Team Fortress 2.

[Kinky__]

I... i really should have brought scratchies instead of keys

[Ralph Wiggum]

I... i really should have brought scratchies instead of keys

Probably would've ended up with nothing anyways...at least TF2 you get items.

Oh wait...I scrapped them...

[Trixxter]

Just did an addition from all the Mann Co purchases I made since release.

I literally vomited. I wont say how much but it's enough to realize I have a spending problem and need to fix it right now. Thanks goosmurf for waking me up. O_O

[goosmurf]

Just did an addition from all the Mann Co purchases I made since release.

I literally vomited.

You can't tease us with something like that and then not cough up the figure

Ballpark? Is it 4 digits? Begins with?

ETA: Addicts may find this helpful? http://uhatsearch.appspot.com/cratesim/