Review: Civilization V: Gods & Kings

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The expansion pack for [app=7452]Civilization V[/app], Gods & Kings, offers a return of the religion and espionage mechanics, as well as a bunch of welcome overhauls. But at $50, it's an expensive investment. James Pinnell investigates.

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[Mekon]

But at $50, it's an expensive investment.

To be fair, that's not the real price of the expansion, that's the Great Australian 2K Games Steam Ripoff in action.

You can still get it for a much more reasonable 26.99 USD at Green Man Gaming. At half the local price, it's a much more palatable spend.

if you don’t feel like being a god botherer, no problem.

You lose some significant advantages by not controlling a religion. I was actively converting my cities back to the One True Faith(tm) to recoup the fairly significant bonuses I had built in.

Some examples:

Major Pantheon Bonuses (pick one): 10% faster Growth Rate, +1 Happiness from cities with population of 6+, +30% increase in city Ranged Combat Strength, +15% Production of Ancient/Classical Wonders, +15% faster border growth

Founder Beliefs (pick one, founder cities only): +1 Happiness for each City following Religion, +15 to Influence resting point with City-States following this religion, +1 Happiness for every 5 followers of this religion in non-enemy foreign cities

Follower Beliefs (pick two, applies to any city): Shrines provide +1 Happiness in Cities with 3 followers, Shrines and Temples provide +1 Food each in city, Gardens provide +2 Happiness in city, Temples provide +2 Happiness in cities with 5 followers, +1% Production for each follower (max +15%), 15% faster Growth rate for city if not at war

Enhancer Beliefs: +20% Combat near friendly Cities that follow this Religion, +20% Combat near enemy Cities that follow this Religion

Added to which, later on in the game, you can purchase Great People with fiath (along with missionaries, inquistors, temples, catherdrals, etc).

It's a pretty signficant subsystem with a good amount of depth and should really not be ignored.

[James Pinnell]

But at $50, it's an expensive investment.

To be fair, that's not the real price of the expansion, that's the Great Australian 2K Games Steam Ripoff in action.

You can still get it for a much more reasonable 26.99 USD at Green Man Gaming. At half the local price, it's a much more palatable spend.

Generally, most reviewers will base price concerns on the RRP, since that's what 90% of most people will end up paying. At $26 it's a lot more reasonable, but that's based on whether it does what you were expecting it to do.

[Mekon]

And it's fair enough to note, but probably also sensible to note that it's only Australia that suffers from the overinflated price.

[Vand]

I have to say, I don't know if I agree too much with this. Me and my mates played this for about 8 hours straight before we realised it was 2:30am, and the same again last night, and it added quite a bit for us. As Mekon said, religion has a very worthwhile bonus making it worth the effort to fight for considering that it is possible to miss out on it.

Enjoyed Civ V before the expansion, and can't put it down now with the additions it brings.

Also looking forward to see what some people put on the workshop which I can see bringing even more awesome additions to the game.

[InAUGral]

I was considering buying this from GreenManGaming because its a price more of what Id be willing to pay considering Im not sure id play it a lot unless it makes significant changes. I have Sins to play atm though so no rush to get another time sucking game.

[Ashigaru]

Sorry to be a bit harsh James, but the review comes off as someone who is butt-hurt about so many of the features of Civ IV not being in place. I've put a lot of hours into Civ V and initially thought it was such a pain compared to 4, but over time have come to realise it's a different beast altogether. No more stacks of doom, not having to deal with dodgy religion, balancing city focuses more than 4 etc.

Also, people often forget that Civ IV in it's vanilla form was missing a lot of the polish the game is now renowned for. Civ V is getting better over time, just like it's predecessor did.

As Mekon has pointed out, religion is actually pretty important to the flow of the game and definitely isn't something to be ignored. I also prefer the implementation in Civ V, and that's it's not linked to technological advances like in Civ IV.

I personally think the exclusion of physical spy units is for the better. It leaves espionage with a more behind the scenes feel, much more befitting for subterfuge etc than moving physical units around.

Also you've noted that the new civs are nothing to really write home about. Did you meet Austria in any of the games you played? Apparently it's both a pain and a bag of fun having her marry up city states all over the shop! Still haven't had a chance to play as the Austrians, but they are by all reports a bit of fun

Most important thing for anyone playing Civ V (Vanilla or G&K) is to take off your Civ IV hat. It's not the same game, nor will it ever be. I personally haven't had more fun with a Civ game than I have with Civ V

[caitsith01]

Most important thing for anyone playing Civ V (Vanilla or G&K) is to take off your Civ IV hat. It's not the same game, nor will it ever be. I personally haven't had more fun with a Civ game than I have with Civ V

Given that Civ IV is one of the best games ever, you're not really selling it!

I haven't played V, and nothing I've seen gives me any desire to.

Sounds to me like Civ IV: BTS is still where it's at for 'real' Civ players...

[James Pinnell]

if you don’t feel like being a god botherer, no problem.

You lose some significant advantages by not controlling a religion. I was actively converting my cities back to the One True Faith(tm) to recoup the fairly significant bonuses I had built in.

Some examples:

Major Pantheon Bonuses (pick one): 10% faster Growth Rate, +1 Happiness from cities with population of 6+, +30% increase in city Ranged Combat Strength, +15% Production of Ancient/Classical Wonders, +15% faster border growth

Founder Beliefs (pick one, founder cities only): +1 Happiness for each City following Religion, +15 to Influence resting point with City-States following this religion, +1 Happiness for every 5 followers of this religion in non-enemy foreign cities

Follower Beliefs (pick two, applies to any city): Shrines provide +1 Happiness in Cities with 3 followers, Shrines and Temples provide +1 Food each in city, Gardens provide +2 Happiness in city, Temples provide +2 Happiness in cities with 5 followers, +1% Production for each follower (max +15%), 15% faster Growth rate for city if not at war

Enhancer Beliefs: +20% Combat near friendly Cities that follow this Religion, +20% Combat near enemy Cities that follow this Religion

Added to which, later on in the game, you can purchase Great People with fiath (along with missionaries, inquistors, temples, catherdrals, etc).

It's a pretty signficant subsystem with a good amount of depth and should really not be ignored.

But ignoring it didn't push me into a corner, nor did I lose my edge with other civilisations. Sure, I missed out on some bonuses, but that works in the same way as missing out on bonuses for not completing wonders, not forcing your civs into slavery for production bonuses or, the opposite, turning capitalist to increase your dollar.

It wasn't like there were suddenly a crusades like force that was spawned from mass religion that provided an overwhelming advantage. In most cases, I did not notice that Spain had religion bonuses as I levelled their cities - never did religion feel like something I needed to pay attention to. It was like the game itself never cared about it - it never let me know what was happening outside of a few notifications that my civ was now Hindu.

Frankly - all you did was list what was basically in the manual for religion. You get some bonuses and religion focused great people. Yawn. When you break it down, it's exactly what you referred to it as - a subsystem. It's not a fundamental thread through the game, its just another element that may, possibly, give you an edge. From my experience, it didn't make a difference to my play, tactics or eventual victory at all.

I still think Policy is a stronger system of civilisation bonus and direction. I also didn't feel they did anything more with it.

[James Pinnell]

Sorry to be a bit harsh James, but the review comes off as someone who is butt-hurt about so many of the features of Civ IV not being in place. I've put a lot of hours into Civ V and initially thought it was such a pain compared to 4, but over time have come to realise it's a different beast altogether. No more stacks of doom, not having to deal with dodgy religion, balancing city focuses more than 4 etc.

Calling me "butthurt" isn't a great way to start a pretty strong point mate, but I'll ignore it. I've also given Civ V a ton of hours, but calling it a "different beast" is, I feel, making excuses for broken features. I really hate the new grid system - it turns Civ into risk and removes a lot of the tactics behind flanking units and forces you into corners of sacrifical units or making the choice between a defenceless siege weapon or a weak arse polearm soldier.

Also, people often forget that Civ IV in it's vanilla form was missing a lot of the polish the game is now renowned for. Civ V is getting better over time, just like it's predecessor did.

As Mekon has pointed out, religion is actually pretty important to the flow of the game and definitely isn't something to be ignored. I also prefer the implementation in Civ V, and that's it's not linked to technological advances like in Civ IV.

As I reiterated in my reply to Mekon, religion isn't that important - its a feature that can be beneficial if used or ignored if not. The game doesn't force you to care like it does about espionage or city state influence.

I personally think the exclusion of physical spy units is for the better. It leaves espionage with a more behind the scenes feel, much more befitting for subterfuge etc than moving physical units around.

Also you've noted that the new civs are nothing to really write home about. Did you meet Austria in any of the games you played? Apparently it's both a pain and a bag of fun having her marry up city states all over the shop! Still haven't had a chance to play as the Austrians, but they are by all reports a bit of fun

Funnily enough, I played as the Celts and the Austrians, but I found most of the benefits to involve faith based systems that I found quite boring. I'm not a huge religion fan (offline or on ;p) and I wanted to see how running a secular system against religious enemy civs would matter - it didn't.

Most important thing for anyone playing Civ V (Vanilla or G&K) is to take off your Civ IV hat. It's not the same game, nor will it ever be. I personally haven't had more fun with a Civ game than I have with Civ V

Call me butthurt if you like, but Civ IV is a much more refined and complex beast. Civ V feels like half a game, even with the expansion.

[James Pinnell]

And it's fair enough to note, but probably also sensible to note that it's only Australia that suffers from the overinflated price.

This site is for Australians, I don't see why I would need to make that point when it's plainly obvious. It seems like you're nitpicking for nickpicking's sake on this point mate.

[Mekon]

This site is for Australians, I don't see why I would need to make that point when it's plainly obvious. It seems like you're nitpicking for nickpicking's sake on this point mate.

Hardly. I was pointing it out because I refused to pay $50 for the expansion because it didn't seem worth it... but was prepared to pay $26 (as noted in the last thread). Seems fairly on-topic, given that you were arguing that that it was overpriced for an expansion.

Given that it is a Steam key, it makes absolutely no difference where you buy it from and the readership of this site is remarkably adept at importing physical copies and buying Steam keys (leaving the whole "90% of people pay RRP" argument a little out of touch).

End of the day, I'm finding the expansion to add significantly to my own enjoyment of the game. Clearly you don't - each to their own, I guess, but you seem a somewhat overly irritated by the conflicting opinions expressed here.

[James Pinnell]

This site is for Australians, I don't see why I would need to make that point when it's plainly obvious. It seems like you're nitpicking for nickpicking's sake on this point mate.

Hardly. I was pointing it out because I refused to pay $50 for the expansion because it didn't seem worth it... but was prepared to pay $26 (as noted in the last thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=195354&p=2609963#p2609963 ).

Seems fairly on-topic, given that you were arguing that that it was overpriced for an expansion. Given that it is a Steam key, it makes absolutely no difference where you buy it from and the readership of this site is remarkably adept at importing and buying keys (leaving the whole "90% of people pay RRP" argument a little facile).

I'm aware of this fact, but it doesn't avoid the glaring existence of a $50 fee for Australians on Steam, in the shops and on other DD services. For everyone person who uses a key, another 100 will buy it full price on Steam or at retail.

As a result, I factored this into my price. If the publishers wanted it to be cheaper, they should have made it cheaper. Arguing semantics about Cdkey websites and such doesn't ignore the fact that if you want to buy it without going through a 3rd party, which judging from my article on Cdkey websites many people still hate doing, it's $50.

It's even more pertinent that when Civ V came out, it was $90 on steam, and back then there weren't many sites, if any really, you could buy keys from.

End of the day, I'm finding the expansion to add significantly to my own enjoyment of the game. Clearly you don't - each to their own, I guess, but you seem a somewhat overly irritated by the conflicting opinions expressed here.

Having a forum involves a back and forth discussion. I've noticed you tend to be quite outspoken on most of the feature content on GON and very few writers tend to engage you, so on this occasion I did since you questioned one of the key points I made in my review.

I'm not irritated at all, I enjoy fleshing out points I've made in my writing and justifying my decisions on various things. Conflicting opinions are welcome and I like reading them.

[Mekon]

It's even more pertinent that when Civ V came out, it was $90 on steam, and back then there weren't many sites, if any really, you could buy keys from.

How is Civ V's pricing 18 months ago (Sep 2010) remotely pertinent to the pricing of an expansion in 2012? Other than in a discussion about 2K Games applying ridiculous Australian surcharges... which was my point in the first place!

No skin off my nose, just seems to be rather more community-oriented to point out that people should shop around for easily accessible (and legitimate and safe) savings, rather than sweeping it under the rug and then decrying the cost.

[James Pinnell]

It's even more pertinent that when Civ V came out, it was $90 on steam, and back then there weren't many sites, if any really, you could buy keys from.

How is Civ V's pricing 18 months ago (Sep 2010) remotely pertinent to the pricing of an expansion in 2012? Other than in a discussion about 2K Games applying ridiculous Australian surcharges... which was my point in the first place!

I was simply making a connection between the publisher's pricing then and now, when there weren't options. Jezz mate, you seem more irritated then I do about his!