Kony Discussion

[Marius]

Killing someone who rates up there with Hitler for brutality, is something "worthwhile" in my book. It just takes people with the stones an the ability to find an put a bullet in him, which he most definitely needs.If that **** was taking Aussie children you would be up in arms an screaming for the SAS to do something lol.

But because it's just kids half way round world, it doesn't rate as being important enough? Find him, put a gun to his head an execute him, problem solved, cheap as chips....

There's no guarantee that is cheap, easy, or would even do anything.

Haven't you learned anything from the US' attempts at African or Middle East involvement over the past few decades? Or their war on terror? Regime change doesn't do anything. To actually effect change, significant resources need to be spent to both change the regime, and build the country up.

This stuff is a sinkhole.

The appropriateness of using assassination tactics to intervene in another country's issues is also questionable.

Killing the animal will have an effect, it will force his group to fall apart till the next arsehole with delusions steps up, an hopefully he wont be such a nutbag.

If that hope you have was justified, the country wouldn't have systematic issues that have stretched back decades, because as soon as one nutbag retires, a paragon of virtue steps up after a long period of lawfulness... right?

A more realistic assessment is that even if his group falls apart, the power vacuum will just promote another, fully intact group. And they'd keep doing this stuff, because the precedent for doing it is set.

[Nekosan]

Killing someone who rates up there with Hitler for brutality, is something "worthwhile" in my book. It just takes people with the stones an the ability to find an put a bullet in him, which he most definitely needs.If that **** was taking Aussie children you would be up in arms an screaming for the SAS to do something lol.

But because it's just kids half way round world, it doesn't rate as being important enough? Find him, put a gun to his head an execute him, problem solved, cheap as chips....

There's no guarantee that is cheap, easy, or would even do anything.

Haven't you learned anything from the US' attempts at African or Middle East involvement over the past few decades? Or their war on terror? Regime change doesn't do anything. To actually effect change, significant resources need to be spent to both change the regime, and build the country up.

This stuff is a sinkhole.

The appropriateness of using assassination tactics to intervene in another country's issues is also questionable.

The only reason the war in the middle east is still in progress is because too many people are making too much money from it, hell one of the main reasons they went there in the first place was to blow the **** out of everything and then pay companies they have interest in to rebuild it using government money.

The Israeli conflict would indicate that assassination doesn't work particularly well however, there's always another radical looking to exploit their own people and most of the time they have less idea wtf they're doing than the last guy did.

Killing the animal will have an effect, it will force his group to fall apart till the next arsehole with delusions steps up, an hopefully he wont be such a nutbag.

If that hope you have was justified, the country wouldn't have systematic issues that have stretched back decades, because as soon as one nutbag retires, a paragon of virtue steps up after a long period of lawfulness... right?

A more realistic assessment is that even if his group falls apart, the power vacuum will just promote another, fully intact group. And they'd keep doing this stuff, because the precedent for doing it is set.

You're 100% right there, regime change is totally useless unless the country is willing to work on it and they have the outside support to do it, corruption and just generally being a **** is so institutionalized in most African countries that it's virtually impossible to eradicate without dramatically raising the general standard of living for all of a society. Some of these countries populations are only a well phrased suggestion away from eating human flesh again, how people expect them to be able to run a country is totally beyond me, we're talking about places where they kill albino's and grind them up because they're "magic" lmao. Also you have to consider that plenty of people outside the country don't WANT them to sort their **** out, it's too easy to exploit a country that's savage like that.

Realistically the US are going to mess with them, just like Somalia they have "dat oil" now and the corporations are going to kick back into full swing with their "let's just **** on everyone till we get what we want for less" mentality.

[Hotblack]

It would make a good movie......

[Tas]

Assassination may not change a country, but are you saying this guy should be left alone to keep doin what hes doing?. So it's ok to keep taking children an forcing them to kill their parents an become soldiers?... Or is it ok to keep murderering people every chance he gets?....(I doubt you really think that) But change or no change, this arsehole needs to pay for his brutality, an only way to do that, is to kill him.

Please dont tell me he needs to be understood an talked to, lets change him an make him see the light as such. Death is only way to remove those animals.....

(In my opinion)

Yes a new warlord will probably pick up where he left off, but you dont just decide "Ok I am now a warlord an I have thousands of sociopaths with gun's, lets go kill some people!!"....

We should be teaching the government with the best we have EG SAS, train them like we helped train the Indo's special forces. Supply the government with the gear an the tactics to police their own country. There is no doubt that Africa is generally a shithole an it's been tearing itself to pieces for decades, but that doesn't mean we in the west cant effect change by using our what we know.

I am gob smacked that people think koney should not be removed. That they think it isn't fair of us to kill this animal.

[Bluefire]

100 advisors in warzone.. payrate + equipment costs.. well over 100k per year each...
given how long it taks them to find anyone else... 5+ years to find and arrest ****.. another 5 years to try and convict..

or...

5mil bounty.. he's dead in a year..
And the next guy is thinkin... Hmmm do I really want to go there.. that'll be me next.
Ya dont have to HIRE anyone and have them fail.. just post a bounty.. for 5mil people will go hunting.
But hey thats the americans choice.

If Im going to donate money to have someone killed I'd rather donate for some aussies to buy an old soviet sub and set about sinking as many boat people as possible.
Worthy cause, saves aussie families and our country money. Oh and would open up more vacancies for legitimate refugees who actually follow Australian laws rather than criminals who sneak in.

[MaddMoose]

Ya dont have to HIRE anyone and have them fail.. just post a bounty.. for 5mil people will go hunting.
But hey thats the americans choice.

Bin Laden had a $25 million bounty on his head, no one gave him

To fix places like these you need a stick and carrot approach. You need to use the carrot at the start. Most of the people that side with the dictators do so in order to feed their families and keep them safe, not because they truly support them. You need to provide a better alternative, not by just throwing endless aid at them either. You need to build local, self sustaining economies which allow them to provide for themselves. The stick comes into it with the military providing security for people and the newly built local economies. They shouldn't be actively hunting the dictators at this stage. Once the dictators numbers thing so that only the hardliners are left, then the military should be sent in to crush them.

This is a massive oversimplification of the process. You only need to look to Afghanistan and Iraq where they have/are trying to do exactly this to see just how difficult it is to actually achieve.

[FryzieDelta]

the Ugundans

okay I cant take it, this is something like the third time you've done this. it's Ugandans, because they live in Uganda. every time I read Ugundan I think of the Gungans from Star Wars.

Pfft, what do I care, I'm an Australien.

[Kremmen]

We should be teaching the government with the best we have EG SAS, train them like we helped train the Indo's special forces. Supply the government with the gear an the tactics to police their own country. There is no doubt that Africa is generally a shithole an it's been tearing itself to pieces for decades, but that doesn't mean we in the west cant effect change by using our what we know.

I am gob smacked that people think koney should not be removed. That they think it isn't fair of us to kill this animal.

great theory, get our SAS to train goverment soldiers.
We have troops in Afghanistan training local soldiers and a few have turned their guns on those helping.
The Libyan rebels freedom fighters where helped and then they desicrated commonwealth war graves as well as attack black Libyans or anyone loyal to Gaddafi.
Train a few African soldiers and you could then have the potential of well trained group taking kony's place.

Whilst I agree that Kony should be taken out, better off imprisoned as an example, it should be done by the Africans themselves, but that wont happen because a war torn country is far easier to exploit than a stable one.

[Tas]

You cant just say though to let the Africans deal with it. If you gave me a gun today an dropped me in Uganda,I would last about a day, cos I dont know **** from Sunday about warfare in any sense of the word. But we are meant to allow the Africans to deal with it themselves,? even though their "army" is about as well trained as a girl guide brigade?...

Australians are unequally experienced at this sort of action, since its shown in every warzone we have been in, that Aussies have a really good skill set for jungle warfare. So you get our people training the locals in the skills needed to hunt this dog down an kill him. I dont personally believe the whole bounty thing works. I dare say the locals are more scared of him then they are of outsiders.BUT, an heres the trick, make an example of this guy an make it messy an the next arsehole just might "moderate" himself even if he does take over, he may not be as batshit insane as koney is.

Hell we had dock workers an teenagers fighting the best the JP had up in the kokoda trail.

[Kremmen]

so you want Australia to get involved after watching an emotional video of a warlord, a video made by someone you dont know, a guy whos intentions you are not sure of, to get a guy you had possibly never heard of before the viral add campagne.

Personally I like a bit more information about what I get involved in any conflict.

That is the reason we have courts, for people to be tried by their peers and not by the media or emotion.

If the Africans are as well trained as girl guides, that is up to them, the bloke they are chasing is also at the same level of well trained girl guides.

[FryzieDelta]

You cant just say though to let the Africans deal with it. If you gave me a gun today an dropped me in Uganda,I would last about a day, cos I dont know **** from Sunday about warfare in any sense of the word. But we are meant to allow the Africans to deal with it themselves,? even though their "army" is about as well trained as a girl guide brigade?...

While it is true that when compared directly they are poorly trained, many countries have differant approaches to war and what a soldier should be due to differing ideologies, climates, terrain, social structure, avaliable resources and support etc. etc. Meathods of war and tactics differ. You may equate them to girl guides, but I don't like your chances if you and a couple of your mates went up against a couple of them.

So you get our people training the locals in the skills needed to hunt this dog down an kill him.

The yanks are already over there with their '100 combat equiped advisors' (which I assume means Green Berets, who's role is largely centred around what you are suggesting). We don't need to contribute anything, and shouldn't.

[Nekosan]

Assassination may not change a country, but are you saying this guy should be left alone to keep doin what hes doing?. So it's ok to keep taking children an forcing them to kill their parents an become soldiers?... Or is it ok to keep murderering people every chance he gets?....(I doubt you really think that) But change or no change, this arsehole needs to pay for his brutality, an only way to do that, is to kill him.

Child soldiers have existed in Africa for longer than any of us have been alive, why is it that people suddenly "care" now that they've seen a viral facebook video? I don't remember people being "outraged" when "General Butt Naked" would eat a babies heart before battle or when they were eating people inside the Liberian parliament building.

I'm a little bit saddened that you think killing this man is the only way Tas, there are numerous cases (like Butt Naked i just mentioned) where these people have done the most horrific things and then repented and gone on to do good work to help their country, shooting people in the head doesn't always have to be the answer. The problem is that the system that created this guy is still in place, there are a million mentally screwed up kids with the potential to turn out like this guy did, killing can only be the solution if you have the resolve to just kill everyone over the age of 1 in the entire country.

I think people need to stop and take a look at why THIS case interests them so much and not others, I don't recall masses of outrage over the institutionalized rape of a few hundred thousand Congolese women every year, it's just pathetic how many people jumped on this and nobody even bothers to do any fact checking.

Internet vigilantism doesn't help much when the target isn't somewhere that you can harass them, better off starting a letter writing campaign then talking about this junk on the net.

[Tas]

lol has nothing to do with the video, I didn't even watch it. I have done my own reading on this ****. But I do find it amusing you want these animals to "understood" an helped to "repent their ways" lol....

For some of us the levels of brutality this animal showed req's a bullet. (While it may seem easy for me to say such things) I am not in the position to actually do anything about it, or I would jump at the chance. But I have neither the training or the military background for such things.

I understand your a person who believes "everyone is basically good" an they should be understood cos it isn't their fault that they had a bad life blah blah. But fact is mate some people deserve what they put out.

Just because child soldiers have existed for a long time does not mean you can stick your head in sand an pretend nothing is wrong.I will never understand why some people wanna "set up a discussion" on why someone does something, or help them see the light etc etc.... **** em, some just need to be removed. You can sit back an discuss an go back an forth an while your doing that, someone els gets killed or whatever els he does to them, because others lack the balls to stop him.

I dont often back the USA in pretty much anything. But I am really glad they have sent some Special operations in there to kill this animal. They are personally doing the entire planet a great favor, an its good to see they have the backbone to do what Australia an rest of the west doesn't.

[Kremmen]

I dont often back the USA in pretty much anything. But I am really glad they have sent some Special operations in there to kill this animal. They are personally doing the entire planet a great favor, an its good to see they have the backbone to do what Australia an rest of the west doesn't.

Why is it up to the west?
do we have some superior human rights record?

Germany has an army, Isreal have an army and is much closer.
China, India, in fact there are many countries who have an army who could help.

So what good reason should we get involved in a conflict halfway around the globe which could have reprecussions for us?

[FryzieDelta]

lol has nothing to do with the video, I didn't even watch it. I have done my own reading on this ****. But I do find it amusing you want these animals to "understood" an helped to "repent their ways" lol....

Who said this and where? Because I can not find it. You are reading posts just far enough to determine that someone is disagreeing with you, and then make **** up.

Just because child soldiers have existed for a long time does not mean you can stick your head in sand an pretend nothing is wrong.

Nobody is pretending that there is nothing wrong. We know that there is something wrong. People are just disagreeing with you about what should be done about it. Once again, you are just reading far enough to determine that someone is disagreeing with you and then making **** up.

They are personally doing the entire planet a great favor, an its good to see they have the backbone to do what Australia an rest of the west doesn't.

It's not a case of Australia not having any backbone. Our military is called the Australian Defence Force. Not Australia's Contribution To Policing The Planet. Not the Australian Bureau Of World Investigation. And not the Ugandan Defence Force. It is there to protect Australia, it's people and it's interests. International terrorism is of interest to Australia. The security of the SE Asian region is of interest to Australia. I don't see how hounding one African warlord among many is related to Australian interests. And I don't see it becomming an interest unless the UN decides to intervene directly or an ally requests assistance in the matter, plus the US is already handling the situation themselves.

On a more interesting and far less repetitive note: This is post one thousand one hundred and onety one.