Kony Discussion

[Matty]

Food for thought: This pdf (Small Arms Survey, 2007) has some interesting info.

As a result, it is commonly believed that the LRA is an army of child soldiers and the sole perpetrator of war crimes, even though the UPDF has also been found guilty by the International Court of Justice of training and sending children off to fight. One international security expert, summing up the general government information policy on the LRA, confirmed that, ‘Most people still think the LRA is a bunch of children and old guys due to 20 years of propaganda.'

Supporting one bad faction over another bad faction.. That will work out well.

Also, "Let's save the children by lobbying for a military attack on a dude with an army of children"

Apparently when they tried to take him by force (and failed, obviously) he ordered his troops to slaughter a village to "punish" those who came after him.

[Sathias]

People need to read this before they get too carried away with this issue.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -film.html

Ugandans are really pissed off because the info in the doco is around 6 years old, Kony isn't even in Uganda anymore.

“What that video says is totally wrong, and it can cause us more problems than help us,” said Dr Beatrice Mpora, director of Kairos, a community health organisation in Gulu, a town that was once the centre of the rebels’ activities.

“There has not been a single soul from the LRA here since 2006. Now we have peace, people are back in their homes, they are planting their fields, they are starting their businesses. That is what people should help us with.”

“Suggesting that the answer is more military action is just wrong,” said Javie Ssozi, an influential Ugandan blogger.

“Have they thought of the consequences? Making Kony ‘famous’ could make him stronger. Arguing for more US troops could make him scared, and make him abduct more children, or go on the offensive.”

Rosebell Kagumire, a Ugandan journalist specialising in peace and conflict reporting, said: “This paints a picture of Uganda six or seven years ago, that is totally not how it is today. It’s highly irresponsible”.

[Jnr]

Hidden: show

[Nekosan]

Right, Kony stuff goes here.



My two cents... no matter how annoying it may be about these kind of feel-good links getting bandwagoned to assauge middle-class guilt, the only alternative is to never raise awareness about anything.

Important stories must be told and retold and retold and retold. If it frustrates you that some vapid tool on your facebook feed retweets everything and does nothing, your issue should be with that person, not the matters that they're regurgitating.

Also, I can see how this thread might attract some super-insensitive posting, so please be mindful that no matter how BS or how true you think Kony is, there are people suffering around the world... don't make too light with that, k?

The problem is that idiots think that raising awareness about something like this will actually DO something, the extent of their caring is to say "look at this bad stuff guys, like my post if you agree" and then they never think about it again.

It's no different to when Reddit was covered in posts saying "Iran are executing a guy for being christian, we need to DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS!" like anything they could say or do on the internet is going to even register with Iran, it's stupidity and it's insulting to the victims of whatever tragedy simply because people really DON'T care.

Want to do something about problems in Africa? Stop buying expensive electronic goods that are only built off the sweat and tears of those people, stop consuming more water than anyone in any other country on the planet, stop supporting climate change alarmism that will lock Africa exactly where they are because they can't AFFORD to be green.

Posting "awareness" about an issue like this on facebook does NOTHING and it never will, it makes me sad that it can be 2012 and people need facebook to know that this **** is happening, makes me wonder how all these facebook idiots would respond to a documentary about the Congo, I can see it now "TIL: a General in the Congo rapes children and then cuts their hearts out and eats them before going into battle naked because he believes it makes him invincible, WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS REDDIT!".

All this makes me sick because it's so much easier for people to "care" about little black children who are too far away for them to really care about, you never see a piece like that about the homeless veterans who freeze/stave to death every winter in the US.






edit: JNR **** NAILED IT with that picture lol, brb, trademarking "Invasion Africa" before the media get it.

[Bek]

Funnily enough that picture was from reddit...

Also I wouldn't use reddit as an example, since only a month or two back someone posted about a guy called Omari who took a machete to the face defending an orphanage in some country, and they gave him a boatload of money to build a fence, which he did (r/atheism and other subreddits often have charity things going but I don't know the details). Different from Kony of course but this is just to show that bringing things up isn't always pointless, although awareness/money isn't the best way to solve complicated issues like this.

[Marius]

Also, I can see how this thread might attract some super-insensitive posting, so please be mindful that no matter how BS or how true you think Kony is, there are people suffering around the world... don't make too light with that, k?

I'm not going to make light of it, but I am going to say that I believe local help is really the only way to get progress on an issue.

I doubt any involvement by western civilians thousands of miles away will even effect the issue, awareness or not.

People have been well aware of similar plights before, and yet nothing was improved because the militaries involved didn't build up the country. No one can will the people on the ground into doing anything, and aid means nothing if corruption and fighting are still there.

For me personally I do my best to help out causes where I can. I've given donations to Amnesty and Surf Lifesaving for years. But this is because I actually believe in these, and they have a track record of getting stuff done.

But I think these intense on-the-ground issues are far different. Nothing can be done while people are still shooting at each other and politicians are siphoning off money to use for their own purposes.

[PURITy Kin]

Grr, Moderator, my rant was in response to some other people. Please make thier posts firsts. I don't want to be known as the starter of this thread as I didn't start the discussion.

People need to read this before they get too carried away with this issue.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -film.html

Ugandans are really pissed off because the info in the doco is around 6 years old, Kony isn't even in Uganda anymore.

“What that video says is totally wrong, and it can cause us more problems than help us,” said Dr Beatrice Mpora, director of Kairos, a community health organisation in Gulu, a town that was once the centre of the rebels’ activities.

“There has not been a single soul from the LRA here since 2006. Now we have peace, people are back in their homes, they are planting their fields, they are starting their businesses. That is what people should help us with.”

“Suggesting that the answer is more military action is just wrong,” said Javie Ssozi, an influential Ugandan blogger.

“Have they thought of the consequences? Making Kony ‘famous’ could make him stronger. Arguing for more US troops could make him scared, and make him abduct more children, or go on the offensive.”

Rosebell Kagumire, a Ugandan journalist specialising in peace and conflict reporting, said: “This paints a picture of Uganda six or seven years ago, that is totally not how it is today. It’s highly irresponsible”.

Daily Telegraph - Half the news, half the time.

First question I want to ask: Is Invisible Children wrong for trying to bring attention to this issue?

I wish the Daily Tele report there had the rest of the story. Kony see's himself as a freedom fighter. He see's the Ugandan government as corrupt and, well, I agree with him. Infact, I agree pretty much with the majority of Kony's cause. However his methods don't justify his cause, and well, he's an **** and should be "arrested" (to most people, this means killed).

1) Uganda has rich natural resources.
2) Uganda is enduring a harsh dictatorship.

1, 2) Ugandan Government aren't going to appreciate the whole world shoving their nose into their business.

3) The Movie DOES SAY Kony is no longer in Uganda, but often in South Sudan and Kenya.
4) The Ugandan Government have already accepted 100 US Military Advisors.
5) InvisibleChildren do acknowledge there many solutions will be required, remember they've been involved in this for 10 years. Kony2012 is 1 solution, of many offered by InvisibleChildren.

Keep in mind the whole purpose of this campaign is to raise awareness. It's a propaganda campaign. That's all it is. They are not a charity, they are not a political organisation. It's about manipulating the masses, nothing else.

The question we need to ask ourselves is: "Do I agree with this message?".

Personally, I do agree with the message. Many of my friends are form, or are regularly in Somalia, Zimbabwe, Sudan and Ethiopia. All of Africa is in trouble right now, not just Uganda. Corruption and poverty are a huge problem all over the continent. You cannot solve poverty with guns. We've seen that many this this year in Somalia. We've seen that many times in the past decade in Zimbabwe.

I don't believe 'the people' should encourage the US to take on more of a 'world police' role. The US already believe they have a right to invade any country for any reason they decide breaches 'National Security'. A better solution would be to take this issue to the UN. This brings new problems I refuse to go into, but it's the right path to take.

If people feel geniounly affected enough to take action, legitimate charities like The Salvation Army (whom I am heavily involved with in Melbourne), operate in Uganda, Kenya and to a limited capacity in Sudan. World Vision, another Christian Charity have been operating in the area for years. You can donate or if you've got the time and guts, volunteer. It's not hard to find easy, legit ways to get involved.

But Kony2012 campaign is nothing more than publicty, to raise awareness of the issue. They probably will make profit from it, so what. They're not a charity. They are going to cop backlash from the Ugandan Government, so what, they're part of the problem.

[DarkMellie]

That was me Purity, I thought your post kicked off the debate nicely

[vanderlan]

Interesting video, this should have more views than Kony 2012. At least it's a bit informative and promotes a very different message, "Let provide the space for the country to rebuild itself and giving power back to the people", not "Lets send in US troops to kill/arrest one dictator only to replace him with another".

[skitzor]

The problem is that idiots think that raising awareness about something like this will actually DO something, the extent of their caring is to say "look at this bad stuff guys, like my post if you agree" and then they never think about it again.

this is a common complaint, and it sort of ignores IC's whole point. their point (as purity has already pointed out) is to create awareness so that governments will do something about it. governments will only do something if their people want it. American politics is sort of different this way. their politicians will typically only do something if it benefits them, instead of it being the right thing to do. getting reelected benefits them, so they listen to the people. I can sort of understand non-American's not really knowing this.

purity has covered my thoughts on this topic pretty well. it's good to see.

this group does indeed give a low % of money raised to overseas, but that's not why they exist. plenty of charities out there give a high % of money raised to overseas. the creator of this group didn't want another one of those. he wanted to try something different. he wanted to appeal straight to the people with the most power. I wasn't under any other illusions after watching that video. a lot of people's anger stem from this misunderstanding.

one thing I have been disappointed with is the negativity towards people who do something about it. when you are being negative towards someone trying to do something, they will probably end up just doing nothing. that's not a good outcome.

Ugandans are really pissed off because the info in the doco is around 6 years old, Kony isn't even in Uganda anymore.

apart from the fact they addressed this in the video, this point confuses me a little. are they just being pedants and pointing out the facts (even though the facts were in the video)? or are they saying because he's not in Uganda any more he doesn't deserve to be brought to justice? it's just weird. what is the point of people bringing this up?

edit: JNR **** NAILED IT with that picture lol, brb, trademarking "Invasion Africa" before the media get it.

it amazes me how the people who think their government is **** useless are the same people that think their government is some collective mastermind.

[FryzieDelta]

Let the country sort out it's own problems. Don't stick your finger in a pie if you have no interest in taking a slice. Many of the people that are ranting and raving about the US not stepping in are probably also the ones marching down the steet protesting Afghanistan anyway.

[Matty]

The problem is that idiots think that raising awareness about something like this will actually DO something, the extent of their caring is to say "look at this bad stuff guys, like my post if you agree" and then they never think about it again.

this is a common complaint, and it sort of ignores IC's whole point. their point (as purity has already pointed out) is to create awareness so that governments will do something about it. governments will only do something if their people want it. American politics is sort of different this way. their politicians will typically only do something if it benefits them, instead of it being the right thing to do. getting reelected benefits them, so they listen to the people. I can sort of understand non-American's not really knowing this.

purity has covered my thoughts on this topic pretty well. it's good to see.

this group does indeed give a low % of money raised to overseas, but that's not why they exist. plenty of charities out there give a high % of money raised to overseas. the creator of this group didn't want another one of those. he wanted to try something different. he wanted to appeal straight to the people with the most power. I wasn't under any other illusions after watching that video. a lot of people's anger stem from this misunderstanding.

one thing I have been disappointed with is the negativity towards people who do something about it. when you are being negative towards someone trying to do something, they will probably end up just doing nothing. that's not a good outcome.

Ugandans are really pissed off because the info in the doco is around 6 years old, Kony isn't even in Uganda anymore.

apart from the fact they addressed this in the video, this point confuses me a little. are they just being pedants and pointing out the facts (even though the facts were in the video)? or are they saying because he's not in Uganda any more he doesn't deserve to be brought to justice? it's just weird. what is the point of people bringing this up?

edit: JNR **** NAILED IT with that picture lol, brb, trademarking "Invasion Africa" before the media get it.

it amazes me how the people who think their government is **** useless are the same people that think their government is some collective mastermind.

You know that the US and other governments have been trying to take out Kony since 1996 right? Also, the guy has an army of children. So military intervention is a really delicate issue here. Not to mention IC have been photographed with the SPLA and Ugandan Military. (Which also do horrible things)

Rasing awareness, that's great. But that's all these guys are doing. Nothing more. They aren't directly helping anything. (Which raises the question, what on earth do they do with all that money?)

That's great, awareness about one warlord in Africa has been raised. What about the rest? Or the child slave camps for cocoa bean in Africa. Or even things like homelessness/mental health/suicide/drug/violence issues in their own country?

[skitzor]

You know that the US and other governments have been trying to take out Kony since 1996 right? Also, the guy has an army of children. So military intervention is a really delicate issue here. Not to mention IC have been photographed with the SPLA and Ugandan Military. (Which also do horrible things)

how have they been trying? surely it wouldn't take long for a few spec ops team from various countries to track him down. he isn't some political figure that is in a bit of a gray zone which requires national debate over whether we really want to kill him or not. this guy is **** evil.

as for the army of children. yeah sure it would have to be a delicate operation, which would probably count out the Ugandan army, meaning those supervisors aren't doing much. but they risk letting more people die by not doing anything.

Rasing awareness, that's great. But that's all these guys are doing. Nothing more. They aren't directly helping anything. (Which raises the question, what on earth do they do with all that money?)

I don't see why so many people have a problem with this. awareness leads to action. also, they do spend some of the money they raise on the country.

what they do with the money? have you ever tried running a national education campaign. if you watched the video you saw all the rallies, speeches, lectures and media they put out. that **** isn't cheap.

That's great, awareness about one warlord in Africa has been raised. What about the rest? Or the child slave camps for cocoa bean in Africa. Or even things like homelessness/mental health/suicide/drug/violence issues in their own country?

it's a start. do you think nothing should be done anywhere because there is more than one issue in the world? where would society get with an attitude like that?

[Schnookie]

You know that the US and other governments have been trying to take out Kony since 1996 right? Also, the guy has an army of children. So military intervention is a really delicate issue here. Not to mention IC have been photographed with the SPLA and Ugandan Military. (Which also do horrible things)

how have they been trying? surely it wouldn't take long for a few spec ops team from various countries to track him down.

Actually they tried exactly that.

[FryzieDelta]

how have they been trying? surely it wouldn't take long for a few spec ops team from various countries to track him down. he isn't some political figure that is in a bit of a gray zone which requires national debate over whether we really want to kill him or not. this guy is **** evil.

How long did it take to track down Osama? And it is neither the role nor within the capability of a spec ops team to locate one individual who could be hiding in 3 or more differant countries.

as for the army of children. yeah sure it would have to be a delicate operation, which would probably count out the Ugandan army, meaning those supervisors aren't doing much. but they risk letting more people die by not doing anything.

There are ways of going about neutralising an individual person without massive explosions and a long bloody firefight, but the yanks are incapable of that because they want to be seen to be riding forth into the battle and crushing all opposition and all that rubbish. This approach would unfortunately lead to the death of many of those child soldiers. This would not sit well politically, and would probably also upset many of the soldiers on the ground who would be required to carry out the mission, so you can understand the hesitation of the US to get involved.

The yanks are the only one's stupid enough to lead these world policing operations so nobody is going to do anything until the US does unless it directly affects them. The yanks don't want go be seen to be killing children, even if they are the enemy, and lack the finess to deal with the situation in a more sophisticated manner especially now that it has been thrust into the global spotlight so they won't act directly either. The best approach for them now is exactly what they are doing: providing support to the local forces to increase their chances of success.