New Build

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Re: New Build

Unread postby steve_rogers42 » 11 Feb 12, 2:14 pm

Corsair vengeance and dominator kits generally have lower timings.

The ram you posted i would be wary off, i have heard/read of limited success of running quad channel ram on a trichannel motherboard. Whilst the mhz frequency is high the 11 timings are also.

The ram i use has gone out of production, you might be able to come across it on ebay/amazon Its a set ofmushkin 998826 6-8-6-24@1600 ridgebacks. Its fantastic ram and a shame its no longer in prod. I generally take a lot of time researching ram as i appreciate the value of good sticks. Corsair has gotten better (to about where they were ddr2 dominator days, early ddr3 corsair stuff was :x )

A tri-channel kit similar to that was made but both corsair and g.skill both were good and should be found around the place.

The Vertex 3 IOPS arent too bad, but still suffer firmware hangups, you would be better off going with a safe/reliable alternative like a Crucial M4 or a Intel 520, the samsung ssd's have been getting a good wrap lately also.

The main issue with going a sata6 drive on a RE3 is the controller on the motherboard. i think its the same marvel controller thats on the classy3 in which case the throughput will be lower than what the drive is capable of, but still better than sata2, when you move across to a more updated chipset this performance will increase.

Cooling, or rather working out how to cool a computer correctly is a bit of a science. HAF cases are build for airflow, as in they 'breathe' air alot meaning higher rpm fans will cause air to flow through the case easily lowering incase temps, if your running a waterloop you would want a big radiator with high cfm fans on it and decent low noise high cfm fans on the rest of the case to cool the outer components...

All aftermarket coolers generally require the removal of a part of the stock cooling units. so normally its the cowling and heatsink on the cards, similar to cpu cooling. Watercooled parts are normally waterjackets that fit to the cards, unlike 3rd party aircoolers some waterjackets will fit certain cards and not others so you will have to look into different gpu watercooling manufacturers to see if they have a jacket for your specific card, if the card is a reference design it should be more easy to find. non-reference cards are harder to come across.
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Re: New Build

Unread postby ur_noobie » 11 Feb 12, 5:21 pm

steve_rogers42 wrote:The ram i use has gone out of production, you might be able to come across it on ebay/amazon Its a set ofmushkin 998826 6-8-6-24@1600 ridgebacks. Its fantastic ram and a shame its no longer in prod.

you got the ridgebacks? T.T ive got the redlines (same ICs and specs as yours i think), the ridgebacks wouldn't of fitted under my old cpu cooler. That is all. *leaves* <3
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Re: New Build

Unread postby steve_rogers42 » 11 Feb 12, 5:45 pm

really? these fit under a D14... hmmm yea i think they are the same ic's, bloody stable kit tho.
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Re: New Build

Unread postby Crocadrilla » 11 Feb 12, 8:50 pm

The h100 is problamatic, i had to RMA twice before getting a good one. If you read around you'l see its not uncommon to have issues.

I would hold out on a second 7970 until after you'v built the system and played with the one card. If its not cutting it then check the second in, because one 7970 is easily enough for bf3 and you'r current low performance is due to some bottleneck that is most definatly not in the gpu department (prob gpu drivers).
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Re: New Build

Unread postby Mekon » 11 Feb 12, 9:12 pm

X66WeeD666X wrote:Driver Version:8.921.0.0 (Stock ones that came with card)
Driver Date:2/12/2011

Wouldn't it be easier (and cheaper) to update to the newest drivers (8.921.2 RC11, 25/1/2012) first?

http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pa ... river.aspx

The drivers that ship with new release products are almost invariably not quite up to par.
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Re: New Build

Unread postby X66WeeD666X » 12 Feb 12, 2:59 pm

steve_rogers42 wrote:Corsair vengeance and dominator kits generally have lower timings.

The ram you posted i would be wary off, i have heard/read of limited success of running quad channel ram on a trichannel motherboard. Whilst the mhz frequency is high the 11 timings are also.

The ram i use has gone out of production, you might be able to come across it on ebay/amazon Its a set ofmushkin 998826 6-8-6-24@1600 ridgebacks. Its fantastic ram and a shame its no longer in prod. I generally take a lot of time researching ram as i appreciate the value of good sticks. Corsair has gotten better (to about where they were ddr2 dominator days, early ddr3 corsair stuff was :x )

A tri-channel kit similar to that was made but both corsair and g.skill both were good and should be found around the place.

The Vertex 3 IOPS arent too bad, but still suffer firmware hangups, you would be better off going with a safe/reliable alternative like a Crucial M4 or a Intel 520, the samsung ssd's have been getting a good wrap lately also.

The main issue with going a sata6 drive on a RE3 is the controller on the motherboard. i think its the same marvel controller thats on the classy3 in which case the throughput will be lower than what the drive is capable of, but still better than sata2, when you move across to a more updated chipset this performance will increase.

Cooling, or rather working out how to cool a computer correctly is a bit of a science. HAF cases are build for airflow, as in they 'breathe' air alot meaning higher rpm fans will cause air to flow through the case easily lowering incase temps, if your running a waterloop you would want a big radiator with high cfm fans on it and decent low noise high cfm fans on the rest of the case to cool the outer components...

All aftermarket coolers generally require the removal of a part of the stock cooling units. so normally its the cowling and heatsink on the cards, similar to cpu cooling. Watercooled parts are normally waterjackets that fit to the cards, unlike 3rd party aircoolers some waterjackets will fit certain cards and not others so you will have to look into different gpu watercooling manufacturers to see if they have a jacket for your specific card, if the card is a reference design it should be more easy to find. non-reference cards are harder to come across.


Dude what can i say...you're awesome!

http://www.umart.com.au/pro/products_li ... &sid=84221

Thats my current 7970, pretty sure its a reference card?

Crocadrilla wrote:The h100 is problamatic, i had to RMA twice before getting a good one. If you read around you'l see its not uncommon to have issues.

I would hold out on a second 7970 until after you'v built the system and played with the one card. If its not cutting it then check the second in, because one 7970 is easily enough for bf3 and you'r current low performance is due to some bottleneck that is most definatly not in the gpu department (prob gpu drivers).


Even at the resolution i'm chasing (5760 x 1080) BF3 should be handled by one card alone? Cause this is a real good idea if that is the case.

You're right though, there is a bottleneck somewhere...but where!

Mekon wrote:
X66WeeD666X wrote:Driver Version:8.921.0.0 (Stock ones that came with card)
Driver Date:2/12/2011

Wouldn't it be easier (and cheaper) to update to the newest drivers (8.921.2 RC11, 25/1/2012) first?

http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pa ... river.aspx

The drivers that ship with new release products are almost invariably not quite up to par.


Driver Version: 8.921.2.0
Driver Date: 19/01/2012

Updated the new drivers including updating application profiles with the update Node put on their tech round up.

I've been going through all advice and reading what i can on the net to get abit mroe edumacated on this all.

The setups i've come up with are as below, i've done my best to interpret everything you guys have been saying so if i've completely blown over something please let me know!

Either setup is fine, though one is quite a bit cheaper, looking for the most effective for what i'm chasing.

Asus RAMPAGE IV EXTREME/BF3: 525.00
Intel Core i7 3930K: 699.00
G Skill 16G(4X4G) DDR3 2133MHZ PC3-17000 CL9: 200.00
+ ------
1424.00
+
------
2803.00


ASRock Fatal1ty Z68 Professional Gen3 LGA1155: 263.00
Intel Core i7 2700K: 375.00
G Skill 4G(2x2G) DDR3 1600Mhz PC12800 RL 9-9-9-24: x2 84.00
+ ------
722.00
+
------
2101.00


CoolerMaster RC-942-KKN1 HAF X 942: 220.00
Crucial RealSSD C400 256G SATA3 M4 Series: x2 409.00
Asus ATI HD7970 3GB GDDR5 2MDP/HDMI 3DVI: 750.00
+ ------
1379.00

The last 3 items will be purchased regardless of setup, unless we find that bottleneck or Crocadrilla is correct.

Whatdyas reckon?

But yes i'm completely stumped on the cooling part of things, was looking at the Thermaltake Bigwater A80 instead of the H100? Maybe? Just that heatsinks and fans dont look like they will fit to well if you go for a heavy duty setup?

Would the video cards even need cooling? Extra case fans would do the trick or will i need to upgrade to fan/water blocks for the GPUs? If i do head down this route ill be calling in backup for installation lol
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Re: New Build

Unread postby 10dollars » 13 Feb 12, 7:44 am

X66WeeD666X wrote:Thats my current 7970, pretty sure its a reference card?


That is a reference card.


X66WeeD666X wrote:Crucial RealSSD C400 256G SATA3 M4 Series: x2 409.00

Instead of getting 2 256GB SSD's. Grab 1 512.
i5 2500K @ 4GHz. Gigabyte Z68X UD4-B3. Corsair 1600 DDR3 16GB RAM. Crucial m4 256GB. 2 x MSI GTX 680 SLI.


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Re: New Build

Unread postby X66WeeD666X » 21 Feb 12, 11:22 pm

Ok!

Figured out which components i'm going to be purchasing, going with the i7 3930k setup!

Only thing i can't pick is which closed loop CPU cooler i should go for, the H100 or the A80 or just get a really nice heatsink? Less heat the better though if you ask me. Judging from the issues posted around with the H100 (problematic installs/dodgey fans/etc) ill probably be going with the A80.

I'm going to go with Crocadrilla's idea and build the whole thing first without the extra video card and see what comes of it.

Below is some pictures of what my current performance is in game in SWTOR and BF3 at res 5760 x 1080 settings of SWTOR high everything except for shadows/grass/trees and with BF3 everything is set to low low low off 1x sortta deal. SWTOR jumped around 40-80 frames when under load with PC's and in flashpoints its stable above 60. In BF3 im lucky to hold a 50 FPS stable frame.


SW:TOR - Menu - Base reading

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SW:TOR - Base reading

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SW:TOR - on Fleet

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SW:TOR - seconds after heavy load

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BF3 - Seconds after heavy load moment

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Trying to figure out current bottleneck to get the best out of the new beast.

EDIT: In my newbyness with online photos, it seems they aint come out right on this end, ill fix it up this evening when i get home, crop out all the left side stuff.
Last edited by X66WeeD666X on 26 Feb 12, 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Build

Unread postby steve_rogers42 » 23 Feb 12, 5:20 pm

Hmmm, i have been thinking about this in my off time, time to rethink some things...

as per your OP, 15gb or ram or 16? try cutting down to 6gb and see what happens.
(remove all but 1 'kit' of ram)

What do you run in the background whilst playing?

What card did you have in prior to the 7970? Did you remove all past drivers completely? Have you upgraded to THESE drivers, any difference?


I still dont think its worth your jumping from x58 to x79, if your getting an increased rate with a lower resolution its saying that the cpu is fine.

What slot on the board is your gpu in, has it got the correct power/voltage and are you running anything else in the slots? sounds like a 16-8x issue. Also, feels like you'd get the performance your after with another card in, its also the cheapest solution that you can go with before a more major upgrade. But if you want to go to 2011/x79 its also your choice.
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Re: New Build

Unread postby X66WeeD666X » 26 Feb 12, 9:13 pm

steve_rogers42 wrote:Hmmm, i have been thinking about this in my off time, time to rethink some things...

as per your OP, 15gb or ram or 16? try cutting down to 6gb and see what happens.
(remove all but 1 'kit' of ram)

What do you run in the background whilst playing?

What card did you have in prior to the 7970? Did you remove all past drivers completely? Have you upgraded to THESE drivers, any difference?


I still dont think its worth your jumping from x58 to x79, if your getting an increased rate with a lower resolution its saying that the cpu is fine.

What slot on the board is your gpu in, has it got the correct power/voltage and are you running anything else in the slots? sounds like a 16-8x issue. Also, feels like you'd get the performance your after with another card in, its also the cheapest solution that you can go with before a more major upgrade. But if you want to go to 2011/x79 its also your choice.


Updated the photos above.

16gigs, sorry for the typo, ill give it a shot to see if theres any difference.

Run X-Fire, GPU Tweak, Winamp, Nortons AV...have tried running without these things and noticed no speed up whatsoever.

I used to have 2 x GTX 480's, yes all drivers have been removed completey. Yes i have, no real improvement.

I have the 7970 in the first slot on the mobo, should be the 16x one yes? The photo below is what GPU Tweak is set to, i have no idea if thats alright? BTW, this card is noisy as hell at that level of fan which is required or else she easily gets straight into the 90deg range.

Image

I would love to be able to get the performance i want without needing to drop into the next gen stuffs, its whether i can get the desired performance levels without it.

As i've been looking for a aftermarket cooling solution and i'm still pretty newby with that kinda stuff to do it myself was thinking of getting 2x of the below, and a HAF-X case and thats it to start out with, maybe this will compensate, possibly getting the SSD aswell?

http://www.computeralliance.com.au/part ... Part=13593

Then when i get some balls, i can throw my original 7970 into my old computer and see about a true water cooling, by then hopefully some local custom water blocks and what not are easy to procure.

Would 2 of those cards go alright on my Rampage 3 extreme in a 16x - 8x arrangement?

Would my powersupply be hampering anything? I'm pretty sure its the 1000w one that is actually 2x 500w power supplies.

EDIT: To compound my newbyness...this is actually the ram i purchased the other day...

Corsair Vengeance CMZ12GX3M3A1600C9 12G (3x4GB) DDR3
http://www.umart.com.au/newindex2.phtml?bid=2

Was heading in to take out the sticks of memory as suggested and realised this. Also, my video card is in the second PCIe channel, not the first, the closed water loop on the CPUs radiator is to chunky, its also installed on the lower rear case fan because it wont fit on the top. Antec 1200 Case.

My RAM is positioned in slots 2,4 & 6, no real reason. Also, underneath the power/reset switches on the mobo are the PCIe on of switches, they are all switched to ON, is this correct? I'm gonna jump on the web now also to chase for answers.

So my GPU is on a 8x channel, my ram might be backwards, and my cooler is to big...definitely new case/cooler time haha
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Re: New Build

Unread postby steve_rogers42 » 27 Feb 12, 9:06 pm

woah, brilliant response and nice going with sorting out what you have dude, thanks for the feedback :)

Did you use a program to remove the nvidia drivers or just uninstall them? have you tried uninstalling them or trying to remove them from safemode?

Ah righto, gputweak is asus's kit, i would have a look at msi's afterburner, seems like clocks and what not are pretty high, have you run anything to make sure any overclocks are stable and not effecting performance, and the memory clock is fine? AMD/ATI cards are a bit more memory effected than nvidia cards, if i recall, so maybe try a return to stock, or have a look at switching the cards bios to look for a difference?

if you grab 2 direct CU asus 7970's thats a lot or gpu power, you will also have the third if you want to tri-fire, but you would want a hefty psu.

The Rampage 3 should be fine for a 4 x16 arrangement, provided you not using the sata6 connection, if you are it will slow one rail down, but it should still be possible to crossfire @ x16 on two lanes.

a PSU thats 2x500w psu's? pics or model info? sounds a bit weird...

the 3x4gb kit by itself should be more than enough. if your running additional modules, try 135 slots, 246 should be ok for trichannel, your mobo book should be able to help you there. just double check in bios that the modules are running at the rated speed and voltage!


i will have another sleuth about to see if i can rake up some more info, but for the moment this is what i can think of... will get back to you soon :)
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Re: New Build

Unread postby X66WeeD666X » 1 Mar 12, 7:05 pm

steve_rogers42 wrote:woah, brilliant response and nice going with sorting out what you have dude, thanks for the feedback :)

Did you use a program to remove the nvidia drivers or just uninstall them? have you tried uninstalling them or trying to remove them from safemode?

Ah righto, gputweak is asus's kit, i would have a look at msi's afterburner, seems like clocks and what not are pretty high, have you run anything to make sure any overclocks are stable and not effecting performance, and the memory clock is fine? AMD/ATI cards are a bit more memory effected than nvidia cards, if i recall, so maybe try a return to stock, or have a look at switching the cards bios to look for a difference?

if you grab 2 direct CU asus 7970's thats a lot or gpu power, you will also have the third if you want to tri-fire, but you would want a hefty psu.

The Rampage 3 should be fine for a 4 x16 arrangement, provided you not using the sata6 connection, if you are it will slow one rail down, but it should still be possible to crossfire @ x16 on two lanes.

a PSU thats 2x500w psu's? pics or model info? sounds a bit weird...

the 3x4gb kit by itself should be more than enough. if your running additional modules, try 135 slots, 246 should be ok for trichannel, your mobo book should be able to help you there. just double check in bios that the modules are running at the rated speed and voltage!


i will have another sleuth about to see if i can rake up some more info, but for the moment this is what i can think of... will get back to you soon :)



Cheers!

No just uninstalled them.

Ah righto, i always thought that was for a specific program for a specific card, i'll give it a burl now.
Couldn't find much whether those voltages where correct, seems when sliding GPU Tweak Clock speeds its voltage slides with it. You where asking to see if there wasn't enough power getting there?

Newbyness again, cards have bios? I thought that was a motherboard only thing? Of which i need to update so ill do that. Cause im still running the stock bios for the current board and any sort of BIOS modification no matter how small is hairy.

Yeah would need a larger PSU for tri-fire but ill save that for a day far in the future when im VERY bored haha.

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/484

That is my power supply, guess i was thinking of a different one, heard mention of a PSU like that, not sure which though. Shes a straight up 1000w.

To run both cards on the R3E in 16x they need to be in slots 1 & 3, which for size they do aswell, running a sata 6 connection wouldnt slow that down would it?

I'll give the ram switching a go shortly, buying some of the parts for this upgrade over the weekend, order is ready and waiting to pick up!

Thermaltake Full ATX Chaser MK-I Case Black with HDD Docker (No PSU)
ATI 7970 3GB Asus Overclocked PCIe Video Card (PN HD7970-DC2T-3GD5)x 2
Liquid Cooling Corsair Hydro H100 High Performance CPU Cooler
Razer Wired BlackWidow Ultimate Elite Mechanical Switch USB Gaming Keyboard
Display Port to DVI Adapter x 3
2 Metre DVI-D Dual Link Male to Male Cable x 3

That should be a decent upgrade to test to see whether next gen CPU/MOBO/HD is needed :) And i just felt like a new keyboard lol


EDIT:

So been watching a bunch of videos and tutorials on my cards and overclocking, sounds promising.

Information on the different Tweakers. I rather like the ability to set custom "Auto" levels on the fan, though i do still find the temps jumping regularly rather than constant under 67degs with a 75% setting.
MSI Afterburner and GPU-Z
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWxCcscrrjM
MARSII with GPU Tweak
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oM4Bbwb3v_U

Powercolor 7970 Overclocking & Eyefinity Review
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWZho_Jdx9M
HIS 7970 Dual Crossfire & Eyefinity Review
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fdvICOU ... ure=relmfu

I'll be hooking into a benching setup once this is all put together.

I've been trying to find information on whether my speeds are good or bad, is there a program that would tell me? I'm running the GPU Clock and GPU Voltage sliders on linked mode cause i've got no idea and i figure it would compensate somewhat.

Also,

Image

14 days and counting before i can put it all together :cry: Went with the different keyboard cause when i got the store all they had was a BF3 edition razer and i didn't think i could take the BF3 stuff off've it. I like me some clean looks, not busy.

As i'm moving house soon just wait for me to update the what you bought in March thread haha
About to order this aswell. It's just to cool!

http://au.razerzone.com/razer-goliathus ... edition-au

Also, slots 2,4 and 6 looking left to right are the correct slots to fill out first for the RAM modules, filling up the black first, slots 1,3 and 5 it simply wouldn't load.
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Re: New Build

Unread postby X66WeeD666X » 5 Apr 12, 2:04 pm

OKKKKKKKKKKK

Finally remembered my node password!

Have upgraded the computer now, my mate and i did it, took 12-13 hours all up including setup and tweaking.

Have my CPU easily running at 4.5ghz, my RAM boosted to 2000mhz, i aint touched my GPUs, left them at their default overclocking.

I'm running stupidly fast i can tell you that and now i can definitely see where a SSD comes in handy.

BF3 at 5760x1080 most settings on ultra, no MSAA, 16x AA, no motion blur, high post processing, on Wake Island at full load im running 75-80 FPS minumum. Very very happy i am!

All other games i don't even bother tuning, even Skyrim, loaded it up, boosted straight to its highest settings and im running a stable 80 FPS. Though they really need to get some support going to Eyefinity, same with Witcher 2.

I've never seen my GPU temp go above 64 degrees, my CPU temp stays at around 55degs under full load.

SWTOR runs alot better, but still lags up for unknown reasons on fleet and in heavily populated areas. Game issue or my issue? I'm not sure.

Also hooked up my new internet finally! The speed is ridiculous, 5 gig download? 1 minute 30 seconds. Yes i had to type that out fully, its stupidly fast!

I don't like it how the second GPU turns off when not in use or won't turn on if not in fullscreen mode, it makes tweaking it rather diffucult.

Below is some benchmarks, speed tests, and the photos i took when building the new beast. I tell ya what, i was getting stupid heat problems before cause all of my filters where atleast 2cms thick with dust, and the dust was solid enough to bend and not break!

I couldn't get the benchmarking software to run in 5760x1080 or with both cards, so the bench is single GPU, 1920x1080.

There was a few issues with the initial setup, this setup spanned over 2 days, figured it all out though, you'll have to ignore the horrible cable management, there was not much room left in the case i can tell you that!

My next upgrade will be CPU,MOBO,SSDs and true watercooling, creating a new computer out of my old parts, watercooled with the first 7970 i bought and then the new BEAST with crossfire and watercooled.

Enjoy!

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Thankyou so much for all the help in this thread, it was very much so appreciated.
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Re: New Build

Unread postby DeusIgnis » 10 Apr 12, 12:16 am

Random side note:

How does using actual TV setup LCDs go vs Computer Specced.

Is the only difference the ability to pickup TV and the inputs?
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Re: New Build

Unread postby X66WeeD666X » 10 Apr 12, 6:20 pm

DeusIgnis wrote:Random side note:

How does using actual TV setup LCDs go vs Computer Specced.

Is the only difference the ability to pickup TV and the inputs?


Not quite sure i get what you mean?

If your asking what the difference between a monitor and a TV is then aslong as you do your shopping and research correctly you'll find next to no difference whatsoever.

If you dont do your shopping and just buy any old larger TV panel then youll notice huge differences in clarity, response time and general niceness of the picture.

I did my shopping with these ones and find no difference between them and my normal monitors.
|i7/980x@4.2ghz|12G DDR3@2000MHZ|2xHD7970 CUII|2x500GB|G19 & Naga|3x40" LED|


|Tera - Spawneh- MT|
|BF4 - X666WeeD666X|
X66WeeD666X

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Padawan
 
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Joined: 5 Oct 07, 8:07 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

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