Warfare .71 now out

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Re: Warfare .71 now out

Unread postby Gunso » 30 Jan 12, 10:31 am

Air will be balanced in arma3 with 80 x 80 km map :mrgreen:
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Re: Warfare .71 now out

Unread postby PlacidBox » 30 Jan 12, 11:27 am

Gunso wrote:Air will be balanced in arma3 with 80 x 80 km map :mrgreen:


It's 30x30. And the only thing that will ever make air balanced in arma is removing the tab targeting system in favour of something not so trivial.

Baskerville wrote:Undertow just so we are clear you have absolutely no problem with the A10 being worth $100,000 dollars.

Keep in mind that this particular aircraft has no RWR and no flares.

Maybe it's a secret attempt by Benny to stop people buying them.


It has 240 flares. And the RWR thing is annoying since benny's is balanced around all aircraft having RWR (hence the stupidly cheap AA prices in comparison to aircraft.)

Hopefully AA and the MWS will be overhauled next patch.

Freeborne wrote:I don't know why anyone ever gets a Huey anyway

They like the woop-woop sound it makes.

BLUFOR can spam TUSKS? You seem to have forgotten OPFOR have T90's that are just as good if not better.


The t90 is between the m1a1 and m1a2 in effectiveness. Both teams can spam tanks, though, since they're very very cheap.

When tab-locking is removed in next update (?) the prices will all need a MAJOR overhaul. Base sniping tanks have always been a problem. Commanders should know better by now when placing factories.


It's not being removed. It may be changed so that some weapons don't have locking on vet/expert difficulty levels (FABs, Rockets, tank cannons etc.) but things like A2G missiles will still have it.
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Re: Warfare .71 now out

Unread postby Baskerville » 30 Jan 12, 12:17 pm

Well I'm just saying have it priced accordingly or don't include the unit at all.

There's no point having A10's ect at insane prices just because they are useless may as well just start removing vehicles altogether.

The A10 is only useful as shock air so having at 100k doesn't make sense.

People want cheap An2's so the can scout for enemy bases and parachute in nice and quiet.

I don't know why anyone ever gets a Huey anyway


So they can play a bit of Creedence while dusting off in a hot zone.
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Re: Warfare .71 now out

Unread postby PlacidBox » 30 Jan 12, 12:59 pm

Baskerville wrote:There's no point having A10's ect at insane prices just because they are useless may as well just start removing vehicles altogether.

The A10 is only useful as shock air so having at 100k doesn't make sense.


Yeah, it doesn't make sense, if you play the CO version. His warfare prices stay the same between the A2, OA and CO versions, so the a10 (which is very good in OA only) has a huge price. It's still stupid though, the a10 and su25 should be cheaper than the av8b and su34 by quite a bit.
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Re: Warfare .71 now out

Unread postby Sky Monster » 30 Jan 12, 2:52 pm

M1's are both better than their Russian counterpart.

Mobile AA needs a large price increase. Increasing all Heavy prices would mean you have to further increase air prices because the bounty for killing them is also raised.

A good player in a Tung > good player in Aircraft 80% of the time. At the very least the Aircraft will be wrecked and heading for the dirt after it kills the Tung. Thankfully I can autorotate and use an Engineer as my gunner so I get out of sticky situations more often than most.


I've actually been collaborating with Basker to modify and change the prices a bit.

/* Air Vehicles */ USMC

['MH60S']
$15000 'USMC'

['UH1Y']
$25000 'USMC'

['MV22']
$25000 'USMC'

['C130J']
$30000 'USMC'

['AH1Z']
$70000 'USMC'

['AH64D']
$65000 'USMC'

['F35B']
$80000 'USMC'

['AV8B']
$75000 'USMC'

['AV8B2']
$85000 'USMC'

['A10']
$45000 'USMC'


/* Air Vehicles */ US
['MH6J_EP1']
$12500 'US'

['UH60M_EP1']
$15000 'US'

['UH60M_MEV_EP1']
$18000 'US'

['CH_47F_EP1']
$20000 'US'

['C130J_US_EP1']
$25000 'US'

['AH6X_EP1'];
$25000 'US'

['AH6J_EP1'];
$25000 'US'

['AH64D_EP1'];
$65000 'US'

['A10_US_EP1'];
$45000 'US'

/* Air Vehicles */
['BAF_Merlin_HC3_D']
$25000 'British'

['CH_47F_BAF']
$20000 'British'

['BAF_Apache_AH1_D']
$67500 'British'

['AW159_Lynx_BAF'] ----------> 'WILDCAT'
$65000 'British'


/* Air Vehicles */
['An2_TK_EP1'];
$13370 'Takistani Army'

['Mi17_TK_EP1'];
$18500 'Takistani Army'

['UH1H_TK_EP1'];
$10000 'Takistani Army'

['Mi24_D_TK_EP1'];
$52500 'Takistani Army'

['L39_TK_EP1'];
$40000 'Takistani Army'

['Su25_TK_EP1'];
$50000 'Takistani Army'

/* Air Vehicles */
['Mi17_medevac_RU']
$18000 'Russians'

['Mi17_rockets_RU']
$50000 'Russians'

['Mi24_V'];
$52500 'Russians'

['Mi24_P'];
$58500 'Russians'

['Su34'];
$80000 'Russians'

['Su39'];
$52500 'Russians'

['Ka52']
if (paramBalancing) then {$75000} else {$500000}

['Ka52Black']
if (paramBalancing) then {$75000} else {$500000}

/* Air Vehicles */
['Mi17_Ins']
$18500 'Insurgents'

['Mi17_medevac_Ins']
$18000 'Insurgents'

['Su25_Ins'];
$50000 'Insurgents'


If anything raises your eyebrow please post why, and I will give you my justification for the price or amend it as necessary. And if the majority really are set on higher prices, I can add $5k to all across the board, though I'm not going any higher than that.

Also: -

- BLUFOR AT/AA units cost the same as their Gear now, so you can't farm as effectively. If you want AT units you have to pay for them. OPFOR units cost approx their gear already, so no change needed there. EDIT: Metis troops modified to cost the same as the new metis missile cost.

- Metis Missiles cost $1000 a piece, to decrease the effectiveness of the Tower/Barracks trick.

- I tried to increase the price of Mobile AA, but it doesn't seem to stick and the Mission just puts it back to Benny's price...

- If you noticed I made the unbalanced KA52 cost 500k, hopefully that thing never sees the light of day again.
Last edited by Sky Monster on 30 Jan 12, 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
8-)

Freeborne wrote:Well said. I agree with Baskerville!


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Re: Warfare .71 now out

Unread postby PlacidBox » 30 Jan 12, 4:50 pm

Sky Monster wrote:M1's are both better than their Russian counterpart.


For those interested, relevant stats:

T72:
armor (hitpoints) = 690;
D81 Sabot:
muzzle velocity: 1750
dispersion: 0.002
hit (damage done when impacting at typicalspeed): 650
typicalSpeed: 1900

T90:
armor = 800;
2A46M Sabot:
muzzle velocity: 1750
dispersion: 0.002
hit: 650
typicalSpeed: 1900

So 0.34 damage per m/s. 599 damage at 0 range.
(Note that the T90 is supposed to have an improved gun over the T72, but it seems BIS forgot that? Being able to immediately shoot a missile afterwards though makes up for it, if you're good enough to land the missile...)

M1A1:
armor = 850;
M256 Sabot:
muzzle velocity: 1676
dispersion: 0.002
hit: 800
typicalSpeed: 1800

M1A2 TUSK:
armor = 900;
M256 Sabot:
muzzle velocity: 1676
dispersion: 0.002
hit: 800
typicalSpeed: 1800

0.44 damage per m/s, 745 damage at 0 range.

Both shells have the same slowdown over distance, so the m1a1 will always do more damage over the same distance.

So in a battle, the M1s should come out victorious, all things being even (and they rarely are, someone usually gets the jump on the other...)

That's fine though, because the Russian tanks are designed for a different role than the M1A1, and are cheaper to boot.



(Prices seem sane though, SkyMonster.)
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Re: Warfare .71 now out

Unread postby Freeborne » 30 Jan 12, 4:56 pm

I really never use the noob tubes (Jav or Metis) but I could have sworn the Metis was wire-guided and had no locking ability. Did this change in an update?

The prices didn't seem so bad, until I get to the Huey at $10,000.

Flares or not flares, it just makes it too cheap, in comparison to other air assets, for rapid transport across the map to base hunt/destroy. 3 players with MASH would make it highly effective. No-one uses the Huey or MH6 except for base scouting/attacking. That's why it must be priced higher. Just knowing where an enemies base is on a map can change the entire outcome of a game.

If the UH60M is $15,000 why is the Mi17 $18,500? I'd choose the UH60M anyday, so what am I missing here? The AN2 also seems odd to be priced higher than a Huey. It's super slow, has no flares and vulnerable at low altitudes.

Having a pilot slot is worst idea I've heard in this thread or was that a joke?
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Re: Warfare .71 now out

Unread postby PlacidBox » 30 Jan 12, 4:58 pm

Freeborne wrote:I really never use the noob tubes (Jav or Metis) but I could have sworn the Metis was wire-guided and had no locking ability. Did this change in an update?


The static metis is SACLOS like the TOW missiles. The hand held one is horribly broken and locks on like the NLAW while having a 4kmish range. It's always been like this.
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Re: Warfare .71 now out

Unread postby Sky Monster » 30 Jan 12, 5:00 pm

Thanks Placid... Hard evidence is nice. Though it doesn't explain why the AI is better at aiming with the M1. I'm certain they do. It has nothing to do with skill value/Faction either because if I capture an M1 and put Russians in it, it still functions as if I were on BLUFOR to begin with.

It has me baffled and god knows what BIS have done...
8-)

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Re: Warfare .71 now out

Unread postby Sky Monster » 30 Jan 12, 5:03 pm

Freeborne, the Mi17 has RWR, the UH60s dont.

AN2 is more expensive because OPFOR can obtain it from the get-go from a hanger.

I suppose I could make the huey $13370 as well. Though it's not nearly as awesome as an AN2 :( I can't make it as much as the 'hawks because it has no flares, piss all armour and **** guns.
8-)

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Re: Warfare .71 now out

Unread postby sp0rk » 30 Jan 12, 5:06 pm

I love the huey, i always get it when i can... having no flares sucks, and ai door gunners can't shoot for ****... but it's so damn sexy :lol:
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Re: Warfare .71 now out

Unread postby Goshawk » 30 Jan 12, 6:10 pm

Just knowing where an enemies base is on a map can change the entire outcome of a game.

By the time air is up more often than not the teams have already encountered each other or even found a base. Even more so when both teams have ambitious commanders who move their initial bases in somewhere central.

With a Vodnik I can find a base in less than 15 minutes. Now that factories are slightly more robust just knowing where a base isnt enough anymore. Gone are the days of a single player satchel attacking and killing a base.
Also your scenario involving a mash man and a chopper is extremely circumstantial at best.
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Re: Warfare .71 now out

Unread postby sp0rk » 30 Jan 12, 6:21 pm

i just remembered playing a match ages ago where hueys had flares, could this be a parameter?
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Re: Warfare .71 now out

Unread postby UnderTow » 30 Jan 12, 7:22 pm

why is there a need to change prices?

is it u want games to be owned by aircraft?

its funny how the people that spam all teh aircraft are the ones wanting their planes cheaper

also if u want to edit the mission thats fine but make it a new version and dont overwrite the other version.

there is no need for 2 or 3 ppl dictating what the settings should be.
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Re: Warfare .71 now out

Unread postby Sky Monster » 30 Jan 12, 7:48 pm

Placidbox and Freeborn don't use the expensive attack aircraft and they seem fine with it...

And nobody is dictating anything, I put this stuff up to hear everyone's opinion. We all know yours, no need for you to continue posting.
8-)

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