Carmack: Raw Horsepower of PC's ''Hampered'' by Console Development

[News Portal]

The potential and power of PC gaming is being held back by a raw economic need to focus on successful console development, says John Carmack, father of DOOM and possibly one of the most pivotal figures in game development. Carmack also rued the necessity of programming an "arm's length away" through the API, saying that it created a "struggle" to hold the 60FPS easily reached by consoles.

Read full article by Tim Colwill

[diamondd]

now think of a feasible way to get around it carmack!

seriously though, this guy is a god-damn genius. The stuff he churned out in the early days of Id is mind boggling.

[Tas]

Ahh the sweet smell of being right.. LOL I just got done being abused for daring to say PC's are more powerful an consoles are focused on because they are cheaper to program... ROFL...

[Vencha88]

Ahh the sweet smell of being right.. LOL I just got done being abused for daring to say PC's are more powerful an consoles are focused on because they are cheaper to program... ROFL...

Tas, what Carmack just said is one of the reasons consoles are tricky to program on. You really have to have a lot of low level knowledge to make something on a console because you're so damned limited. Every single bit of memory and resource you use you have to use with absolute efficiency or it just wont work, where as a PC lets you get away with more inefficient and unfortunately, lazy, code.

Of course PCs are more powerful and of course programming on one can be cheaper. It's free.

EDIT: Wait you're saying a console is cheaper to program on? Seriously?

[hunterkiller]

Ahh the sweet smell of being right.. LOL I just got done being abused for daring to say PC's are more powerful an consoles are focused on because they are cheaper to program... ROFL...

Tas as much as i agree with your comments i dont really agree with how you went by it in the other thread.

In saying that i do believe its an opinion and not FACT you placed allot of your comments on but im not here to beat you down or to start anything, i do agree that PC is missing out and being held back but he(Carmack) is right that the money is in consoles BUT BUT if you look at minecraft for instance its the most simple game and probably one of the least graphical games EVER, lol (nah this decade) but he still manages to sell a packet load every week and its because the game is done well.

If the AAA developers just took a leaf from his book and created better games then the PC might just be a viable platform just like any other console.

Im only dreaming though as to say that the AAA developers need to make great games, all they think about its a quick sale and the best way to get the maximum sales from that game.

[Tas]

Not at all mate, I said they were fact's because as this proves, they are. The only difference is I dont use the terminology to say it. I think where "some" people here get knickers in a twist with me is because I dont sue flowery terms, or debate something like we are in politics. I find speaking your mind an being blunt seems to work better in life ...

Anyway all that bull **** aside, it will be nice if what he says actually happens. I would kill to play PC games that are actually programed for PC, an not just sad console ports, an all the issues that usually brings.

I do agree with you though, it would be nice, but I think it's a pipe dream.

[hunterkiller]

The only current game im looking forward to and hoping that PC has taken the better stand is BF3 because they stated the primary platform is PC but we wont know until day 1 of the game.

Also i do remember reading that allot of developers are more enticed to come back to developing for PC before console because the extra power and better accessibility to code for PC and a few other reasons i cant remember as to why PC will be the preferred platform.

[BovineDeath]

You really have to stop blaming consoles for the bad PC ports. If a PC version of a game is of poor quality, blame the team that ported it over. Look at Crysis 2 and BF3, both of which look heaps better on PC than console versions because they are done properly.

The actual article was talking about how consoles make better use of the hardware because they don't have to program through API's with a bloated OS running in the background.

"It is a little bit of a shame that despite the raw horsepower, we are hampered by the arm's length API interface because it is, unhappily, true that we have the consoles here running at 60 frames per second and we can have these massively more powerful PC systems that struggle sometimes to hold the framerate because of unnecessary overheads."

I wouldn't use that to put **** on consoles, it just shows that despite the aging hardware, they are optimised for gaming. Not everyone has $3K to spend on a ninja PC.

[Joshsux]

To be honest, Crysis 1 was good, crysis 2 was ****, because they put time and effort into the poor console version? No idea.

Although I agree that consoles piss me off, I only have one of these cheap things to play games that don't come to the PC.

[BovineDeath]

Ultimately, the PC gaming market isn't large enough to warrant the huge investment HD gaming titles require. It's a theme you keep hearing from devs, and now even ID are saying it.

Even if you only play on PC, consoles do mean that more titles are coming out on PC, and larger budget titles, because the development costs are shared across all formats.

Orginally consoles had crappy ports of PC games, now PC gets crappy console ports. PC devs just need to leverage the strengths of the PC platform. Yes, that means BFBC2 should have a prone key on PC! It has enough buttons!

[Crocadrilla]

He isn't talking about whether its lead platform is PC or not, but rather the ineffieciency of the API (DirectX and I suppose openGL since its Carmac saying it).

Consoles run alot more effienctly because you can program at the hardware level...since its all the same hardware. On a pc you program at a software level that interfaces with the hardware, and this is ineffecient, thus why a $1000 pc performes mildy better than a $500 console.

[Joshsux]

thus why a $1000 pc performes mildy better than a $500 console.

lol... I can get a $500 pc to run better than a $500 console, and I can get a $1000 PC to have 4 year newer tech, And be about 4-6x the speed of a console..

You don't know a great deal about computers do you? or was that just a guess?

With todays tech, a $500 pc if brought correctly will easily out perform a ps3/360.. A $1000 machine would obliviate a console.

Yes, that means BFBC2 should have a prone key on PC! It has enough buttons!

To be fair, that was actually a limitation with the engine at the time

[BovineDeath]

That's cheap considering Win 7 retails for $299! Is the $500 for a new system though? Or just an upgraded box with existing monitor and some reused parts inside?

Honestly, I just used my laptop for PC gaming (yes, I'm embarrassed) but I'd love to throw a nice PC together next year when I finish uni.

[diamondd]

That's cheap considering Win 7 retails for $299! Is the $500 for a new system though? Or just an upgraded box with existing monitor and some reused parts inside?

Honestly, I just used my laptop for PC gaming (yes, I'm embarrassed) but I'd love to throw a nice PC together next year when I finish uni.

*cough*

speaking of which, can't wait for linux gaming to take off so I can ditch the 'dows forever

[hunterkiller]

That's cheap considering Win 7 retails for $299!

You can basically walk into a PC store and buy Win 7 OEM for under $100 without needing to buy any hardware, i do it all the time for friends, lol.

Anyway back to thread, i sort of understand now what you guys explained but i still dont get why PC has to suffer so much more when it comes to a port of a console game, i dont directly blame consoles for **** PC ports and yes i do blame poor coding on behalf of the developers.

But indirectly the games are (allegedly) easier to develop on console because they are dedicated only to gaming but that when converted to PC just doesnt work and seems to ruin games more than it should, GTA anyone, lol.

You would think it would work more efficiently when ported to PC considering that they are more powerful, oh well hopefully the next GEN console help game development and porting more efficient and streamline to be ported from PC to console and vise versa.