Some details of Cataclysm's stat-twiddling

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Some details of Cataclysm's stat-twiddling

Unread postby News Portal » 3 Mar 10, 2:07 am

World of Warcraft changed the world of MMORPGs. What happens when WoW itself changes, shattering the familiar and shaking its very foundations? I am of course talking about [app=6101]Cataclysm[/app], and some new answers to these pressing questions, which have recently surfaced.

Cataclysm doesn't just mean new content, or even overwriting of old content - we're talking major rebalancing, and even modification of the game's rules. In a recent forum post, [comp=25]Blizzard[/comp] revealed details of the dramatic changes to character and equipment statistics, and how this will affect your play.

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Re: Some details of Cataclysm's stat-twiddling

Unread postby Yurtles » 3 Mar 10, 8:27 am

I really don't know why they keep changing how tanking works. They've had years and years of playing about with it, just accept you're not going to get it right Blizzard and work with what you got.
That being said, thank God I've stopped playing WoW, the thought of having to relearn optimum stats, builds and rotations (and all the rest of it) yet again is too daunting to even consider. How I ever had the gusto to do it as many times as I did astounds me.
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Re: Some details of Cataclysm's stat-twiddling

Unread postby coder61 » 3 Mar 10, 8:55 am

Yeah agreed on tanking stats their. It seems Blizz are only concentrating on Plate and Cloth. What about Feral Druids and Leather? It looks as if Mages will be able to tank too, lolz.

My thoughts are is that Blizz are concentrating on Paladins with plate buffs and such and all other classes in Tanking will slowly disappear.
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Re: Some details of Cataclysm's stat-twiddling

Unread postby Mythor » 3 Mar 10, 9:46 am

Yurtles wrote:I really don't know why they keep changing how tanking works.
Because people still don't much like playing a tank and some of the ones who seem to like it really aren't suited to the role, either in terms of ability or mentality. This means that a tank is often the hardest person to find for a group, even more so than a healer. And you could probably find a dozen DPS in the same amount of time it would take you to find a single tank. :|

coder61 wrote:It looks as if Mages will be able to tank too, lolz.
Only if you have absolutely no idea how tanking actually works. :P
A large health pool is important for a tank but it's the defensive abilities and modifiers that make it possible to tank. They're not changing that with Cataclysm, just changing where tank classes will get those defenses from.

Widescale changes to the game are part of the fun of an MMORPG. You don't just pick the ultimate setup for your character and then you're set for the life of the game, you get to adapt to new situations and various rebalances. I can see why you wouldn't want to do it all again but I think a lot of people are quite excited by all the changes Cataclysm is bringing. The old world really needs a shakeup...
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Re: Some details of Cataclysm's stat-twiddling

Unread postby Yurtles » 3 Mar 10, 10:47 am

Don't pull sentences out of paragraphs for quotes, you make me look silly doing that :58_80:
I feel like a review quote on a movie poster or something, lol
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Re: Some details of Cataclysm's stat-twiddling

Unread postby Mythor » 3 Mar 10, 11:07 am

Yurtles wrote:Don't pull sentences out of paragraphs for quotes, you make me look silly doing that :58_80:
I feel like a review quote on a movie poster or something, lol
Quoting an entire post in a reply is unnecessary, especially when your point could be summarised with that one sentence. :P
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Re: Some details of Cataclysm's stat-twiddling

Unread postby coder61 » 3 Mar 10, 11:27 am

When you think about it a Tank with a Mage doing Heavy DPS behind him will be like a bulldozer pushing a path through a bunch of savvy women in a Sale. It will be ultimate farming machine.

Try reading the Blizz forums as a blue posted exactly to what i am saying.
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Re: Some details of Cataclysm's stat-twiddling

Unread postby Mythor » 3 Mar 10, 11:32 am

coder61 wrote:When you think about it a Tank with a Mage doing Heavy DPS behind him will be like a bulldozer pushing a path through a bunch of savvy women in a Sale. It will be ultimate farming machine.

Try reading the Blizz forums as a blue posted exactly to what i am saying.

Why would I need to read the Blizz forums?
It's already the case that a tank with good DPS backup can smash things up very well. I didn't even dispute that.

What you said was that a Mage will be able to tank. Except in rare circumstances that is just not the case and won't be in Cataclysm. If you can point to something that says otherwise I would be surprised. Very surprised. :o
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Re: Some details of Cataclysm's stat-twiddling

Unread postby Novocaine » 3 Mar 10, 12:53 pm

Yurtles wrote:I really don't know why they keep changing how tanking works. They've had years and years of playing about with it, just accept you're not going to get it right Blizzard and work with what you got.
That being said, thank God I've stopped playing WoW, the thought of having to relearn optimum stats, builds and rotations (and all the rest of it) yet again is too daunting to even consider. How I ever had the gusto to do it as many times as I did astounds me.



Some people enjoy relearning stats and builds. For a lot of people the math part -is- the game. I just wish they would remove resilience and remake PvP gear like they did back in vanilla.
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Re: Some details of Cataclysm's stat-twiddling

Unread postby Yurtles » 3 Mar 10, 2:25 pm

Mythor1 wrote:
Yurtles wrote:Don't pull sentences out of paragraphs for quotes, you make me look silly doing that :58_80:
I feel like a review quote on a movie poster or something, lol
Quoting an entire post in a reply is unnecessary, especially when your point could be summarised with that one sentence. :P


Topic sentence and then the paragraph following expands on that topic sentence. New paragraph for a new point/topic. That's how I write (Thanks university, I guess you did teach me something.).
Cutting bits of it out does exactly that, it's not the point I was making because it's only part of it.

That's what I was getting at - and I feel like some kind of passive agressive forum troll writing this... but not enough to stop myself :?
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Re: Some details of Cataclysm's stat-twiddling

Unread postby Mythor » 3 Mar 10, 2:52 pm

Yurtles wrote:
Mythor1 wrote:
Yurtles wrote:Don't pull sentences out of paragraphs for quotes, you make me look silly doing that :58_80:
I feel like a review quote on a movie poster or something, lol
Quoting an entire post in a reply is unnecessary, especially when your point could be summarised with that one sentence. :P


Topic sentence and then the paragraph following expands on that topic sentence. New paragraph for a new point/topic. That's how I write (Thanks university, I guess you did teach me something.).
Cutting bits of it out does exactly that, it's not the point I was making because it's only part of it.

That's what I was getting at - and I feel like some kind of passive agressive forum troll writing this... but not enough to stop myself :?
Oh please, let me worship at the feet of your university educated self. :roll:
You should feel bad, since you're being obnoxious.
If I ever find cause to quote you again I'll be sure to quote your entire post, regardless of length, since your university failed to teach you how to follow a simple dialog without copious notes... :?

My reply addressed your post as it was intended, the quote was to signify who I was replying to to provide the context for my reply - the current system doesn't work and leaving it as is would leave the current broken-ass implementation in place.
You seem to be under the impression that leaving a broken-ass system in place is preferable to trying to fix it. I explained why leaving the broken-ass system as it stands would be an issue for the people who actually play it still.

You know, the people actually paying Blizzard money to keep making the game more enjoyable, not people sitting on the sidelines **** about a game they no longer play anyway. :P

That it might prove ultimately unfixable is a really stupid reason not to make the attempt, particularly when they're hoping to get at least one more year out of the game.
It's such a stupid suggestion only a university educated person could make it, I expect.

:58_124:
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Re: Some details of Cataclysm's stat-twiddling

Unread postby coder61 » 3 Mar 10, 4:03 pm

i did not mean to misquote you Mythor it just seems that the way Blizz say Mages can tank too with all extra health and stam. I know what a tank is as i have a feral druid and know already that Mages are always the first to pull aggro off a tank. Followed some words that require a translation about not holding aggro.

But looking at the builds there is also something else happening it seems like the hybrid class is returning in many way. No straight mages ,warlocks and other classes. Its like WoW cataclysm is going back to front in many ways.

I really think we can only see the final changes a month before Cataclysm is released and some reports. Thats if Blizzard still have a player base for the servers. After all ST2 will probably be released prior to the expansion.
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Re: Some details of Cataclysm's stat-twiddling

Unread postby Yurtles » 3 Mar 10, 4:27 pm

Mythor1 wrote:Oh please, let me worship at the feet of your university educated self. :roll:
You should feel bad, since you're being obnoxious.
If I ever find cause to quote you again I'll be sure to quote your entire post, regardless of length, since your university failed to teach you how to follow a simple dialog without copious notes... :?

My reply addressed your post as it was intended, the quote was to signify who I was replying to to provide the context for my reply - the current system doesn't work and leaving it as is would leave the current broken-ass implementation in place.
You seem to be under the impression that leaving a broken-ass system in place is preferable to trying to fix it. I explained why leaving the broken-ass system as it stands would be an issue for the people who actually play it still.

You know, the people actually paying Blizzard money to keep making the game more enjoyable, not people sitting on the sidelines **** about a game they no longer play anyway. :P

That it might prove ultimately unfixable is a really stupid reason not to make the attempt, particularly when they're hoping to get at least one more year out of the game.
It's such a stupid suggestion only a university educated person could make it, I expect.

:58_124:


If I mentioned I like elephants would you go off on a tangent about that as well Mythor? Because I do like them you know. And it'd be just as relevant.

They've had years and years of changes, some large and some small all focused on the one specific issue of trying to improve tanking and all have met with some form of failure correct? At some point you have to admit defeat, you have to admit that some things just will never be how you'd like them to be. You just have try to make what you have work as best you can. In my opinion that point is now. In your opinion that point is somewhere in the future. Telling me I'm wrong doesn't come into it because it's all just opinion.
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Re: Some details of Cataclysm's stat-twiddling

Unread postby Blownaparte » 3 Mar 10, 5:38 pm

....Anyway WoW forums -->....

These changes look nice, new, but not scary.

WoW expansions give (more or less) a clean slate to all players, current game mechanics and gear itemisation shouldn't really give players negative opinion about Cataclysm in relation to what they have now. Nothing (gear-wise) will survive more than a few days (/played) of a WoW expansion.
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Re: Some details of Cataclysm's stat-twiddling

Unread postby Krogan » 3 Mar 10, 9:53 pm

Having played WoW on and off since launch I have seen many different builds come and go, and my impression of Cataclysm is without a doubt that this is WoW 2.0. But instead of making the same mistake Everquest did when they made EQ2 instead of reworking and relaunching a much improved Everquest, they forced people to start over, which they refused to do.

So this is Blizzards answer to the mmo sequel. We can see this in many different ways, with Cataclysm 0% of the original game will remain, making in fact and entirely new game from vanilla WoW.
Then there are the major changes to the basic fabric of the game, things like that we no longer will have to buy skill levels of spells (which is fantastic, thank you Lotro) is a major change.

Personally I am someone that 90% of the time ends up as a tank, it just feels natural to me and if I do say so myself I am rather good at it. The idea of something along the lines of "all classes can now tank" really doesn't appeal to me and I really hope that blizzard doesn't intend to let every last class heal, tank, ranged and melee dps as it would make classes pointless in the end. But I don't fret, I believe Blizzard is aware of this and will not make classes anymore diverse then they already are. But comparing to WoW at launch where most classes could only really do 1 thing (or in some cases do 1 thing, but even that rather poorly) this current system is far better.
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