Why Are People So Mean In Day Z?

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Re: Why Are People So Mean In Day Z?

Unread postby Adam Ruch » 16 Jul 12, 1:10 pm

Fear is absolutely a basic concern in DayZ. Not fear of bodily harm, but fear of loss of time. Time is the only real-world variable that carries over into DayZ, so the fear of having to start over combines with the fear of 'losing a game.' These two factors obviously aren't life & death, but are very real to most game players. Saying "its just a game" is a a tautology: it means nothing. If "its just a game" why are you playing? Why do you try to avoid zombies? Why do any one thing over any other thing?

We have goals in all games, in DayZ a large goal is simply to stay alive. Fear of having that goal taken away is just as 'real' (given our pretty safe bodily existence) as fear of actual bodily harm. It isn't quite as serious, if you compare it to life/death but then, we are rarely if ever in life/death circumstances in our comfortable first world.

I've been thinking about this stuff a lot. DayZ captures a lot of fear pretty well, a lot of our responses to fear, but I still think its missing one thing: pain. On-going suffering. The closest we get is the long timer waiting periods where we literally can't do anything while bleeding out. In reality, in really dire circumstances, people fear pain even more than death if the pain is great enough. Obviously I'm not really arguing for a pain inducer peripheral be added to the standard gamer's rig, but you touched on it before: loss of control. I would guess that's the most "painful" thing that could happen, in an on-going sense, in a game like this. Being held captive, unable to make decisions etc.

We want to avoid these things really badly, so we set aside our other concerns such as ethics in order to preserve our pain and suffering-free state. When the choice is between causing someone else pain and (potentially) suffering it ourselves, we have no qualms about taking the shot.
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Re: Why Are People So Mean In Day Z?

Unread postby diamondd » 16 Jul 12, 1:44 pm

theremin wrote:Hobbes believed that without government (who alone can wield force legally), society would descend into a vicious anarchy.

Well he's wrong isn't he, even from the most primitive of human ancestors, as a species we've known that we can achieve more by cooperating.

His beliefs work in Day Z because its a game and you're allowed to act like a psychopath.
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Re: Why Are People So Mean In Day Z?

Unread postby theremin » 16 Jul 12, 6:32 pm

Thinking about it, 'The Road' by Cormac McCarthy is a good parallel to the world (and psychology) of Day Z (although you don't have to protect your own child in Day Z). Actually that would be a good addition, have an NPC child to protect, if you or the child dies, then game over...

Sort of like a miserable post-apocalyptic 'Ico'.
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Re: Why Are People So Mean In Day Z?

Unread postby Scarecrow » 16 Jul 12, 8:47 pm

Adam Ruch wrote:Fear is absolutely a basic concern in DayZ. Not fear of bodily harm, but fear of loss of time.


I never said it wasn't.

Adam Ruch wrote:Saying "its just a game" is a a tautology: it means nothing. If "its just a game" why are you playing? Why do you try to avoid zombies? Why do any one thing over any other thing?


Because it's a fun game and I want to play games in my spare time. I avoid zombies because that's what the game is...

Overanalysis doesn't do anyone any good.
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Re: Why Are People So Mean In Day Z?

Unread postby Adam Ruch » 17 Jul 12, 7:42 pm

Scarecrow: I'm about to submit my PhD in analysis of videogames. What you call over-analysis does me plenty of good.
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Re: Why Are People So Mean In Day Z?

Unread postby Scarecrow » 17 Jul 12, 8:42 pm

Adam Ruch wrote:Scarecrow: I'm about to submit my PhD in analysis of videogames. What you call over-analysis does me plenty of good.


PhD causes stress = over-analysis is bad for you!

But seriously, I think some **** gets over analysed, especially in academia.
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Re: Why Are People So Mean In Day Z?

Unread postby Adam Ruch » 18 Jul 12, 11:26 am

That's fine, that's your opinion, but you can't expect people in a thread analyzing the behaviour of game players to suddenly throw their hands in the air and give up because you don't think its worthwhile. You have your limits and I have mine.
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Re: Why Are People So Mean In Day Z?

Unread postby Freeborne » 18 Jul 12, 12:18 pm

Question: Why Are People So Mean In Day Z?
Correct Answer: Because there are no consequences.

Admin's won't kick you for team-killing, lying, being a douche, blowing up buildings/cars, or stealing things from other players.

You can remain anonymous very easily. No-one knows who shot you, what you look like, or where you are on the map next time they join a server. Trying to exact vengeance on someone is impossible as you never know who is who, or where they are.

There are so many new players around, that your name will soon be forgotten amongst the hundreds of other players, doing exactly what you have done.

After going on a killing spree, lying and ambushing players for days on end, you can easily just change your style and be a good guy, without any baggage from your past murderous career.

Welcome to DayZ. The Zombie RPG without the RPG, and where the zombies are less scary then ladders and small ponds.
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Re: Why Are People So Mean In Day Z?

Unread postby Mekon » 18 Jul 12, 12:32 pm

diamondd wrote:
theremin wrote:Hobbes believed that without government (who alone can wield force legally), society would descend into a vicious anarchy.

Well he's wrong isn't he, even from the most primitive of human ancestors, as a species we've known that we can achieve more by cooperating.

So... that would explain why all of mankind's history since we climbed down out of the trees is littered with oustanding cooperative behaviour?

Did you do any history at all when you were at school? Or pay any attention to current affairs and the numerous failed states around the world? :)

People are selfish and greedy - they only cooperate if there is a clear and immediate benefit from doing so. If they can get what they want right now without cooperating... all bets are off.
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Re: Why Are People So Mean In Day Z?

Unread postby Scarecrow » 18 Jul 12, 12:38 pm

Adam Ruch wrote:That's fine, that's your opinion, but you can't expect people in a thread analyzing the behaviour of game players to suddenly throw their hands in the air and give up because you don't think its worthwhile. You have your limits and I have mine.


You're taking everything I say as black and white rather than grey.

I'm not saying give up, I'm saying you shouldn't read into everything so much. Sometimes the situation is extremely simple and people will leap over tall buildings to make it much more complex
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Re: Why Are People So Mean In Day Z?

Unread postby Matt 'El_Funko' Long » 18 Jul 12, 3:16 pm

I kill people on sight in Day Z because they might do the same to me. Why take the chance? That's as involved as it gets really.

Well, that and because it's funny. Especially when players frantically yell "FRIENDLY BRO, I'M FRIENDLY! NO DON'T SH-" as I'm unloading on them. Like that will make me stop and say "Oh dear, I'm terribly sorry. Please, accept these Beans of Forgiveness as penance for my actions."

There are very few games that allow players to inflict a permanent loss on each other. Eve is probably the most notable game, except I can't tolerate the grind involved to play it. Back in the day, a lot of text MUDs allowed players to kill each other and take their items - enough that it became a legitimate way to progress. It's a very oldschool game mechanic that you rarely see these days, because game publishers don't like people feeling bad when they play the $80 game they just bought.

Imagine if World of Warcraft gave you the option of slaving away at high-tier raid instance for 4 hours to get some new gear, or ambushing a group of PvE players and taking all their hard-earned stuff in one fell swoop. One of those seems significantly more enjoyable to me.
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Re: Why Are People So Mean In Day Z?

Unread postby xkrewshe8 » 18 Jul 12, 3:24 pm

I have been killed too many times now to be nice..

I now have a small group, anyone apart from that either better stay hidden, or will be gunned down (Assuming that you don't kill us first, which as we are nubs, is more likely the case :oops: )
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Re: Why Are People So Mean In Day Z?

Unread postby diamondd » 18 Jul 12, 3:49 pm

Mekon wrote:So... that would explain why all of mankind's history since we climbed down out of the trees is littered with oustanding cooperative behaviour?

Did you do any history at all when you were at school? Or pay any attention to current affairs and the numerous failed states around the world? :)

People are selfish and greedy - they only cooperate if there is a clear and immediate benefit from doing so. If they can get what they want right now without cooperating... all bets are off.

1. of course I did
2. only stupid, short-sighted people

hmm, outstanding cooperative behaviour... how about world war 2? Anyway, humans instinctively want to help each other. If we didn't, we wouldn't have arrived at where we are today, end of story. The bets only come off when there are no consequences.

at the lowest level, your average person would never betray a family member. That kind of social behaviour that we have instinctively extends to communities, cities, states and countries. Lets hope that one day it extends to us all sharing the same planet.
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Re: Why Are People So Mean In Day Z?

Unread postby Disco LT » 18 Jul 12, 5:10 pm

Matt 'El_Funko' Long wrote:Back in the day, a lot of text MUDs allowed players to kill each other and take their items - enough that it became a legitimate way to progress.


I remember playing a few when I was younger where that was the case, incredibly rare/valuable items lost at another players whim or through sheer bad luck, it could set you back quite a bit more than a death in DayZ >.<
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Re: Why Are People So Mean In Day Z?

Unread postby theremin » 19 Jul 12, 6:18 pm

If anyone is interested in these issues (short sighted betrayal vs long term cooperation, and how humans might have evolved to cooperate in societies), I highly recommend 'The Selfish Gene' by Richard Dawkins - an utterly brilliant book, and readable - you don't need a science degree or anything to understand it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Selfish_Gene
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