War - Whoa whoa whoa, what is it good for

[Kremmen]

All valid points

I may know more aboout the ADF than you think and didnt get my opinions from hollywood.
Imay also have the advantage of hindsight.

[Kremmen]

All valid points

I may know more aboout the ADF than you think and didnt get my opinions from hollywood.
Imay also have the advantage of hindsight.

Will also add that My heart goes out to our latest fallen soldiers.
Whilst I may not agree with our reasoning for being there, I fully support them and their efforts.

[FryzieDelta]

any soldier starting to think outside the box becomes a liability and are quikly put back in their place by his fellow soldiers.

Monash didn't do too badly...

These would be considered conditioning

But not the type of conditioning that Matty is talking about, which is related to being more agreeable with government made decisions which I know for a fact is total bull.

[Sniper 2]

Did I miss something in this post ?

Is this about the sit in protests happening all over the world, or is it about our military and their role in the world ?

[skitzor]

Did I miss something in this post ?

Is this about the sit in protests happening all over the world, or is it about our military and their role in the world ?

sometimes discussions go off onto a tangent.

in this case it's a very interesting tangent (although I haven't read much). it would be nice if an admin could split it off into another topic, but knowing some admins around here, I'm scared of reporting the thread and asking for this, because some of them would just lock the whole topic.

[FryzieDelta]

You've said the 'a' word, we're boned now...

[Nekosan]

Not like it matters, this kind of discussion always tapers off once one side(or both) realize that the other side has an irreconcilable point of view.

[MaddMoose]

Our Afghan deployment has the words 'Mentoring and Reconstruction' in it's title for a reason. They don't go out looking for a fight, they go out to support the local forces in the hunt for weapons caches and other nasty surprises that pose a risk to that nation and it's people, as well as improving community infrustructure and running workshops to give the locals useable skill sets.

I agree with most of what you said, however I need to correct you on this part. Whilst mentoring and reconstruction is what most of the troops are there doing. That's not all of what they do, the SOTG are primarily being used in an offensive manner and the rest of the regular forces do still go on fighting patrols.

The ADF's primary role is war fighting. For the Army in particular, warfighting is the first and foremost thing they train for. Everything else they do is second.

As for the topic of conditioning/brainwashing. I think you're both correct.
Military personnel are definitely trained, conditioned if you will to act in a certain manner under specific circumstances. It's drummed into you over and over so that when the situation arises that you need to perform that action, whatever it may be, it is an instinctive reaction that you perform without thinking. I wouldn't use the word brainwashing, as it implies that the altering of mental state is done unwillingly, which is isn't. ADF personnel consciously choose for whatever reason to undertake that training.

The same can be said about anyone that is good at their profession. Take a professional crickter for example. They will spend hours in front of a ball machine repeating the same shot over and over, so that it becomes second nature.

I'm of the opinion that being a soldier isn't the ability to carry heavy things great distances or shoot various weapons systems. It's a mindset, one which dictates how you view the world and react to situations. Military training gives you the tools you need to utilise that mental state in the business of warfighting.

[Matty]

I don't think any of our threads ever stay on topic.

In on topic news, police are starting to forcefully remove all peaceful occupants all over America.

[HandsomeSandwich]

Our Afghan deployment has the words 'Mentoring and Reconstruction' in it's title for a reason. They don't go out looking for a fight, they go out to support the local forces in the hunt for weapons caches and other nasty surprises that pose a risk to that nation and it's people, as well as improving community infrustructure and running workshops to give the locals useable skill sets.

Haha classic - its the title for a reason! Unquestionable then.

Then look at all the stuff we do in our own neck of the woods. We aid in disaster relief, we lead peace keeping operations, we train neighbouring nations so they can look after themselves (does that count as the education you were harping on about before?).

Like pinching Timor oil and pacifying the Solomons? What about training up war criminals in Indonesia? I guess they used different titles so they slipped under the radar.

[Nekosan]

I'm of the opinion that being a soldier isn't the ability to carry heavy things great distances or shoot various weapons systems. It's a mindset, one which dictates how you view the world and react to situations. Military training gives you the tools you need to utilise that mental state in the business of warfighting.

Read this if you haven't already http://www.mwkworks.com/onsheepwolvesandsheepdogs.html whole book echoing pretty much what you just said.

[FryzieDelta]

I agree with most of what you said, however I need to correct you on this part. Whilst mentoring and reconstruction is what most of the troops are there doing. That's not all of what they do, the SOTG are primarily being used in an offensive manner and the rest of the regular forces do still go on fighting patrols.

SOTG is an entirely differant kettle of fish, they're the nasty branch of the army

Military personnel are definitely trained, conditioned if you will to act in a certain manner under specific circumstances.

That's not the type of conditioning he's talking about. He's talking about being conditioned to agree with the governments decisions on war fighting and the like.

Like pinching Timor oil and pacifying the Solomons? What about training up war criminals in Indonesia? I guess they used different titles so they slipped under the radar.

Explain.

[Matty]

That's not the type of conditioning he's talking about. He's talking about being conditioned to agree with the governments decisions on war fighting and the like.

If this is referring to me, actually I said conditioning in the general, which yes the term can used to ALSO describe what you just mentioned. Then it seems all of you guys in the army decided to fly off the handle because I "said you were brainwashed and working for an evil government" while personally attacking me.

Good show guys, seriously. Please tell me more about what I'm thinking.

[lee.]

it would be nice if an admin could split it off into another topic, but knowing some admins around here

Your face. If you want/need something done and are a bit iffy on the outcome, you're more then welcome to send me a PM

Also, new thread for you to discuss the war and whatnot.

Left open the Occupy thread also

As you were.

[FryzieDelta]

Please tell me more about what I'm thinking.

Well, I'm no Patrick Jane, but I'd wager that while you're reading this you're thinking that I'm being a smart ****.

actually I said conditioning in the general

Where?
Your refferences to conditioning are below:

Troops on both sides are willing to fight to the death because they believe what they are fighting for is right. They have been conditioned to do so.

...

And then it gets into very very grey areas of if they are conditioned think they are fighting for good causes but are wrong, could we be conditioned in fighting for the causes we think is right

Seemed to me that you were specifically reffereing to soldiers being conditioned to believe what their government views as being 'right' and then fight for it, when in fact it is simply following the orders that get passed down regardless of personal feelings and beliefs.

personally attacking me.

Who? Where? When? How?