This post pretty much encapsulates my view on D3

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This post pretty much encapsulates my view on D3

Unread postby Nekosan » 31 May 12, 3:58 pm

This is from the Blizz forums and whoever came up with it is 100% right.

This was originally posted by WRECK. but blizz keeps deleting these and i feel without these posts noone will hold blizz accountable for their mistakes.

"Well I have to applaud Blizzard in all reality. From a business stand point it would seem like you're on the perfect track to make the shareholders at Activision very, very pleased.

You've taken a game with so much hype built around it, a game with a rabid and wildly large fan base, a game vaulting off of the massive success of the previous generation - and you've turned it into your sacrificial lamb.

I understand that WoW is dying. The cash cow that you have been able to depend on to fill your coffers is finally drying up. It had a great run. MoP is not likely to defibrillate the failing heart of what was once the WoW empire, and you know this. Starcraft 2, while an amazing game, cannot replace this cash cow - then again it wasn't meant to. How could it? Your business foresight is very, very attuned. Because of this you carefully planned your next chess move: Diablo 3.

What better way to birth another golden goose than to bank an entire game off of the most addictive part of what Diablo 2 was: the item grind. Pure brilliance. And so, from the ground up, you formed this game to be solely about item exchange - this would be the titan built to replace WoW's subscription based bankroll in the form of micro transactions.

Except one thing: you're boring.

On May 15th 2012, after nearly a decade of anticipation, we were given Diablo 3! Except, it's not quite Diablo 3. It's a slimmed down, cut up version of the Diablo 3 everyone was taught to expect. Except, it wasn't given to us, we still had to pay you full price for it: $60.

My how the mighty hath fallen. Why is it not Diablo 3, you say? Well let's see. Anyone remember all those teaser videos spoon fed to the community over the past 3 years? Videos slowly leaking to us glimpses of the content we could expect to experience? I do.

From nearly FOUR years ago:

@2:10 "These current weapons just won't do!":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K0YkUH6 ... ature=plcp

I guess scrapping this idea all together was more developmentally cost effective.

@6:30 "Let's see what a real fight looks like."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RT4K6e2q ... ature=plcp

Indeed, lets. I'm still waiting, actually. Is it just me or does that environment look entirely more engaging than the atmosphere we've purchased at release?

@2:00 Did he say randomized, dungeons, quests and encounters?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMAyxY7m ... ature=plcp

If their idea of newly generated fights, quests and environments is a continuous cycle of the same things from a pre-conceived list, he's spot on!

So where's the beef? - some might say. The beef is that this is not Diablo 3, this is an imposter. A hologram. An artificial replacement. A lame duck substitute for what hype built it up to be. A cut up and slimmed down version of what should have been. In essence: a slaughtered, sacrificial lamb.

That leaves myself and thousands of others saying indeed, where is the beef? Blizzard's answer: there is no cow level. But hey, we got rainbows and unicorns!

Is anyone still in complete denial about how truly boring this game is or have people started to shake off the honey moon dust?

You eliminated enchanting, PvP, pet companions and other things from the release version so that you could market it as part of a later expansion for more money. (This is a trend in gaming that several developers have been following; withhold content you've been advertising for the past two years and charge a premium for it at a later date. I shouldn't have expected Activision-Blizzard to be any different, and that is my fault. I wrongly assumed this group was made of trend setters and leaders, not followers - so shame on me.)

You didn't include a single player mode because you can't make money off of people if they aren't using the AH in a multiplayer format. Less work for you in the development stages, and forces people to engage in the micro-economy that your bankroll is based on. Again, brilliance. Which leads me to my final point:

There is so LITTLE dynamic to this game I cannot believe it took this many years to create it. In fact, I don't. So why the long wait? I'll tell you: economic law.

More specifically, the legality and complications that stemmed from the idea of a multinational game built around a Real Money Auction House. This process, I imagine, took years to iron out - while the game itself probably took no more than a few actual working years to complete (and it truly shows).

It doesn't take an overly intelligent mind to figure WHY they would want to use a RMAH and get a cut of (a lot of) the transactions. That's fine. Here's the problem: you built the entire game around a pure gear grind, and then force that gear grind to revolve around the AH, specifically the RMAH. There is literally no other dynamic. When you build a game from a purely business stand point, you're not building a great game - and a great game this is not.

In conclusion, gamers, do you really want to spend your time on yet another slave-like gear grind? If so, eat your heart out. You'll find no better place to do it! If not, there are a plethora of other games out there much more deserving of your $60, I promise.

Diablo 3 was built around Activision's greed. Participate at your own will.

Gamers hold grudges and people aren't going to forget this disaster. If you obliterate your true fan base, the pillars of your success come falling soon after.

I give this post less than a few hours before it is deleted by Blizzard moderators. Can't have that bad flavor out there, can we? Truth hurts.

Regards, a long time fan."
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Re: This post pretty much encapsulates my view on D3

Unread postby revengous » 31 May 12, 4:20 pm

all I see is qq. People on the internet just want to complain about stuff. I remember that video, and when I got d3 all i wanted to do was to fight the mass of trees, turns out, its actually in game, hidden on one of the random maps

twas a good battle.
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Re: This post pretty much encapsulates my view on D3

Unread postby SaNE » 31 May 12, 4:33 pm

Nekosan wrote:This is from the Blizz forums and whoever came up with it is 100% right.

Until 'the masses' stop bankrolling them by pre-purchasing and paying for things that should come standard with the game, why wouldn't publishers get the developers to do things that get more money?

Call of Duty did it, everyone loved paying for expansions and now Elite.
World of Warcraft did it, even though you're already paying to bankroll their game every month.
Battlefield is now no doubt going to do it.

If you can do less and get more money over time, why wouldn't you when people are so happy to eat it up?
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Re: This post pretty much encapsulates my view on D3

Unread postby Marius » 31 May 12, 8:44 pm

D3 has about as much depth (if not more) that D2 had on release. D2 1.00 was lol.
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Re: This post pretty much encapsulates my view on D3

Unread postby Sathias » 31 May 12, 8:51 pm

You didn't include a single player mode because you can't make money off of people if they aren't using the AH in a multiplayer format. Less work for you in the development stages, and forces people to engage in the micro-economy that your bankroll is based on. Again, brilliance.


More like "You didn't include a single player mode you can't make money when the game is utterly devastated by piracy like the first two games".

Whether you agree or disagree that it should be online-only, this reason he has stated is false. If it was so important to Blizzard that they make ongoing money from the AH they would have delayed launch until the RMAH was ready.
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Re: This post pretty much encapsulates my view on D3

Unread postby jonlee » 1 Jun 12, 4:17 am

I agree with the OP. This game prob took 2 years develop but the AH business model would have taken quite some time to develop. You have to be kidding yourself if you really think Diablo 3 took 12 years to develop.

The reason why they didn't release the AH with release is because they are waiting for the economy to stabilize.

I think consumers are starting to realize that a lot of gaming companies are making these business models and really don't like it. It has become quite obvious when companies are solely making the game around a way that can generate income. I think it was "Zombies...RUN" on android where every action you took points off your bar. When you didn't have enough, you had to wait 2-3 mins for one more action or buy action points.

It's no longer the golden era where games were made to be fun (except indie games) thus making it popular and thus making sales. It's all how we can generate income constantly in a short period of time.


That being said if I was working for Blizzard I'd take the same approach they are doing purely for making money for the organization.
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Re: This post pretty much encapsulates my view on D3

Unread postby Auld » 1 Jun 12, 7:06 am

So the people who have no RMAH in parts of Asia are getting off scot free whilst I pay for the Blizzard execs next cocaine fueled orgy? I'm outraged!!!!

No really, PvP is coming and I'm glad they aren't trying to deal with the balance whingers as well as iron out the current release issues. They identified that the RMAH was not ready early on and delayed it, another good call.

The game really does feel like it needs an expansion and some more polish, but so did D2 and I am still having heaps of fun. You cannot test and provide the polish that comes from 6 months of real world play and player feedback.

Expectation, play the **** out of it for maybe another month. Let Blizzard patch it and polish and then really get back into it when the expansion comes out. Well worth the $60NZ I spent on it.
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Re: This post pretty much encapsulates my view on D3

Unread postby Nekosan » 1 Jun 12, 2:33 pm

jonlee wrote:I agree with the OP. This game prob took 2 years develop but the AH business model would have taken quite some time to develop. You have to be kidding yourself if you really think Diablo 3 took 12 years to develop.

The reason why they didn't release the AH with release is because they are waiting for the economy to stabilize.

I think consumers are starting to realize that a lot of gaming companies are making these business models and really don't like it. It has become quite obvious when companies are solely making the game around a way that can generate income. I think it was "Zombies...RUN" on android where every action you took points off your bar. When you didn't have enough, you had to wait 2-3 mins for one more action or buy action points.

It's no longer the golden era where games were made to be fun (except indie games) thus making it popular and thus making sales. It's all how we can generate income constantly in a short period of time.


That being said if I was working for Blizzard I'd take the same approach they are doing purely for making money for the organization.



It has always been about the money, the problem is that studios used to be run by gamers and now they're run by a corporate trained CEO who's solely chasing his end of year bonus or keeping shareholders happy. Game devs have fallen into that broken cycle that all public companies eventually fall into, profit must continue to go up and costs must continue to go down, nothing else is acceptable but it isn't a viable long term business model. Someone gets screwed and it's always the customer.
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Re: This post pretty much encapsulates my view on D3

Unread postby Novocaine » 1 Jun 12, 2:38 pm

Nekosan wrote:It has always been about the money, the problem is that studios used to be run by gamers and now they're run by a corporate trained CEO who's solely chasing his end of year bonus or keeping shareholders happy. Game devs have fallen into that broken cycle that all public companies eventually fall into, profit must continue to go up and costs must continue to go down, nothing else is acceptable but it isn't a viable long term business model. Someone gets screwed and it's always the customer.


How is this relevant to Blizzard? Morhaime and Pierce have been the CEO/VP since the beginning of the company.
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Re: This post pretty much encapsulates my view on D3

Unread postby GoToadGo » 1 Jun 12, 3:30 pm

Novocaine wrote:
Nekosan wrote:It has always been about the money, the problem is that studios used to be run by gamers and now they're run by a corporate trained CEO who's solely chasing his end of year bonus or keeping shareholders happy. Game devs have fallen into that broken cycle that all public companies eventually fall into, profit must continue to go up and costs must continue to go down, nothing else is acceptable but it isn't a viable long term business model. Someone gets screwed and it's always the customer.


How is this relevant to Blizzard? Morhaime and Pierce have been the CEO/VP since the beginning of the company.

Since they report to Activision I'd say it's pretty relevant to Blizzard.
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Re: This post pretty much encapsulates my view on D3

Unread postby ub3r » 1 Jun 12, 3:37 pm

People always complain about games on release. I avoided most of the D3 hype train, and tbh, I love the game. Always online mode is probably the most annoying aspect, but once you get your chars past normal the game gets more fun and interesting.

As for the game being gear-based? well to a certain extent yes, but player skill and build choice is the difference between beating inferno with 20k DPS vs beating it with 50k DPS.
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Re: This post pretty much encapsulates my view on D3

Unread postby skitzor » 3 Jun 12, 5:53 pm

Nekosan wrote:This is from the Blizz forums and whoever came up with it is 100% right.

really?



What better way to birth another golden goose than to bank an entire game off of the most addictive part of what Diablo 2 was: the item grind. Pure brilliance. And so, from the ground up, you formed this game to be solely about item exchange - this would be the titan built to replace WoW's subscription based bankroll in the form of micro transactions.

Diablo 2 was exactly that. an item (and level) grind. if diablo 3 is an item grind, it's because D2 was. there hasn't been a fundamental change.



@2:10 "These current weapons just won't do!":

I'm not sure I understand the point here. weapons with frost and lightning? it's a bit petty to dump on a whole game because of this little change.

Indeed, lets. I'm still waiting, actually. Is it just me or does that environment look entirely more engaging than the atmosphere we've purchased at release?

no. it looks exactly like the released game.

If their idea of newly generated fights, quests and environments is a continuous cycle of the same things from a pre-conceived list, he's spot on!

this is the disconnect between marketing and expectations. apple's keynote speeches are some of the most hyperbolic things I have ever seen, but apple users don't complain.

PvP

coming in a patch (not a paid expansion).
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doubt this would have turned out very well.

You didn't include a single player mode because you can't make money off of people if they aren't using the AH in a multiplayer format. Less work for you in the development stages, and forces people to engage in the micro-economy that your bankroll is based on. Again, brilliance. Which leads me to my final point:

SP mode is ****. they removed it because they didn't want people having a **** experience. MP is where it's at. watching how your skills synergise with other classes is **** amazing. talking about the game and trading gear is amazing.

AH was necessary. if there wasn't an AH, it would just be like D2 where you had online stores selling items. AH is an easier solution to the problem created by games like diablo.

It doesn't take an overly intelligent mind to figure WHY they would want to use a RMAH and get a cut of (a lot of) the transactions. That's fine. Here's the problem: you built the entire game around a pure gear grind, and then force that gear grind to revolve around the AH, specifically the RMAH. There is literally no other dynamic. When you build a game from a purely business stand point, you're not building a great game - and a great game this is not.

what was D2 centred around?

I believe their putting off of the RMAH shows they aren't money hungry. they are waiting for the services to be in good condition whilst they are sacrificing their income.

In conclusion, gamers, do you really want to spend your time on yet another slave-like gear grind?

seriously, this kid must not have played D2. I don't know what he was expecting. after SC2 came out and people realised it was essentially the same, why would the same company release D3 to be totally different to D2?

I give this post less than a few hours before it is deleted by Blizzard moderators. Can't have that bad flavor out there, can we? Truth hurts.

classic victim complex. recent evidence shows that blizzard are willing to take constructive criticism. there was a recent massive post by a guy suggesting something like 33 different things, and a blizzard employee responded to every single one. the difference seems to be this guy was just complaining, where the one that got actual attention was constructive.

Regards, a long time fan."

for some reason I find this hard to believe.
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Re: This post pretty much encapsulates my view on D3

Unread postby RaTTuS007 » 5 Jun 12, 11:20 am

Pretty much take every thread on the diablo forums with a grain of salt the only decent thread ive read is that one that lists some decent fixes and because its wasn't a whiny trash post blizz listened
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Re: This post pretty much encapsulates my view on D3

Unread postby smokngoat » 7 Jun 12, 11:34 am

Pretty much agree with OP/link.

Like the game, don't love it. Classes don't feel... right... Inferno's more of a grind than enjoyment, to me anyway.

Combined with maintenance and Australia's ping which isn't going to get better, I'm pretty much over the game now.

I thought I was a Blizzard fanboy. I'd tell my friends "It'll be great, Blizz never release anything that's not great!", but now... the **** they've released with WoW in the last couple of years, the fact that (to my mind) starcraft 2 was about 1/3rd of a whole game and just the overall ... mediocrity of D3, I doubt I'll be buying another Blizz game before it's been out for 6 months and unless everyone's glowing about it. Oh and without Aussie hosted servers if it's online only.

Just my $wow-annual-pass-value (sigh)
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Re: This post pretty much encapsulates my view on D3

Unread postby skitzor » 7 Jun 12, 3:22 pm

smokngoat wrote:Inferno's more of a grind than enjoyment, to me anyway.

that was the intention. to replace constant meph/pindle/cave runs with inferno.
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