Server #13 Auto Scramble

[flabcab]

Can auto-scramble please be enabled on server #13 after 2 wins. The server has become pretty bad, it is almost always a 1 sided fight.

[goosmurf]

Wow, I just came here to suggest that #13 be forced auto-team.

I observe that 90% of the time Blu is stacked. I get that people want to play with their friends but it's getting ridiculous. It's to the point that even though most of the #13 regulars are on my friends list I really don't want to play there anymore because combined with the hard time limits it means that your choice is a) go with the stack which is complete boredom or b) go against the stack and even if you win, you'll rarely get a chance to complete an attack because the hard timelimit kicks in.

Most of the players on #13 all know each other so I don't really see the harm in forcing auto-team -- I'm always going to be playing with some friends regardless.

[Mythor]

More of the regulars should be choosing auto-assign, it's as simple as that.

[goosmurf]

Problem is, they don't.

[flabcab]

Problem is, they don't.

No most people choose team, yesterday I the blue team had all but 2 players with clan tags

[Bicketybam]

What amazes me is the people that complain most about stacking of the teams are usually the worst offenders...

I can put it on, it doesn't bother me, but I can see what will happen when I do.

[Ralph Wiggum]

I'm going to add that the stacking/team swapping on server 13 was one of the reasons I resigned being an admin about 2 weeks ago. It was just becoming too frustrating to try enjoy playing the game AND monitor the stacking going on. For about the last 6-8 months, the practice of team swapping, spec-rejoining, quit-rejoining and ignoring auto-scramble seemed to have become the norm in the server. I lost my passion for the server community and subsequently my passion for the game.

I'll willingly admit there was I time when I used to stack with the regulars. But mashing the "3" or "4" key at the start of the round made me feel it was against the spirit of the server community and so I began auto-joining teams... and more often than not ending up on the non-stack team. I quickly learned that getting rolled by the same team made up of the same players, map after map, gets boring real fast.

I say good luck to Bickety and Mythor, I'd hate to see them lose their passion for the game the same way I have. And I really do like seeing familiar faces in the crowd (I mean let's face it, it's good to play with people who know how to play the game rather than dealing with those F2P noobs ), but I feel the server has lost some of it's enjoyment because of the stacking.

[goosmurf]

What amazes me is the people that complain most about stacking of the teams are usually the worst offenders...

I can put it on, it doesn't bother me, but I can see what will happen when I do.

Are you talking about me?

Seeing as I'm the only regular posting in this thread right now who's complaining about stacking.

I'd say I'm one of the few regulars who actually changes teams against the stack when it's obviously a steamroll.

Ralph, I completely agree with you. I'm reaching the point where I think it's almost sensible to start my own server.

I can see at least two viable solutions to fighting the constant stacks and I have presented both here in times past.

One is as I said, forcing auto-team. It's my *least* preferred solution.

The better solution is using the auto-scramble SM plugins -- it let's people do whatever they want team wise, and if it's an obviously unbalanced game then it at least *attempts* to balance things out.

[Ralph Wiggum]

Ralph, I completely agree with you. I'm reaching the point where I think it's almost sensible to start my own server.

If it had the auto-join/auto scramble option, then yeah. I've played on other GON servers and some team swapping happens, though nowhere near as the same amount of stacking ad 13. Leaving server 13 would be a shame, because the community when it spreads itself over both teams create really fun, mostly close competitive matches.

[goosmurf]

Ralph, I completely agree with you. I'm reaching the point where I think it's almost sensible to start my own server.

If it had the auto-join/auto scramble option, then yeah. I've played on other GON servers and some team swapping happens, though nowhere near as the same amount of stacking ad 13. Leaving server 13 would be a shame, because the community when it spreads itself over both teams create really fun, mostly close competitive matches.

Yeah, that's why I like it. Which is why it's also so frustrating to see the games being ruined by stacking. You can see players cycling in and out because of it and in the long run it's not good for the server, nor the games.on.net brand I might add.

[Ralph Wiggum]

To be fair, it happens with other games, and with other game servers. Ever played Battlefield 3? That game is massively stacked because you can see the ranks of other players, and the winning team seem to have most of the max level 45 Colonels. And the teams are not scrambled after each map. The one saving grace with the game is that it only allows pretty much one team change each time you play the game.

The GON TF2 admins really try their best to enforce the rule (and it IS clearly stated that server stacking is against the rules) but I personally found it sad that I had to remind regulars in the first place as I expected better of them. And I admit I just gave up in the end.

[goosmurf]

The GON TF2 admins really try their best to enforce the rule (and it IS clearly stated that server stacking is against the rules) but I personally found it sad that I had to remind regulars in the first place as I expected better of them.

Yeah I find that really frustrating as well, especially when everyone pretty much knows everyone, there's no real need to stack and everyone gets a better game if the teams are balanced.

And I admit I just gave up in the end.

That's what I really want to avoid too which is why I strongly advocate the SM auto-scramble solution. It really shouldn't be something that admins need to manually police when there is code to automate it. (I am aware that SM often has issues after major updates, nothing's perfect.)

I'd happily volunteer time to tweak any such settings.

FWIW I've been admining Linux/FreeBSD servers for over 12 years, I can code, and a couple of weeks ago I setup my own TF2 server for MvM. So I'd be happy to help install/setup/configure/maintain the required servers/mods if GON would allow it.

[Bicketybam]

What amazes me is the people that complain most about stacking of the teams are usually the worst offenders...

Are you talking about me?

I was talking about all people in general.

As an example I can remember one player recently (no names) complaining about the "stacking" with this comment: "looks like stacking blue hasn't changed on GoN servers. now I remember why I stopped playing on them" who basically is saying " I can't stack on the team I want" as that player constantly joins the team with same people to play each time but only calls "stack" when they don't get to play with their friends..

What amazes me is the people that do this and think we don't notice. I've seen it all a million times.

The rule we have on "stacking" is more about the numbers, but we do have a rule on the scramble.

The better solution is using the auto-scramble SM plugins -- it let's people do whatever they want team wise, and if it's an obviously unbalanced game then it at least *attempts* to balance things out.

I was recently going to get gscramble added to 13 until the last patch, the MvM update caused errors with it, so the idea was put on hold. Being such a popular server we don't like to mess with it though and breaking it would not be a good thing.

I joined tonight well after the main "regs" had left and just finished and had a great time. While there were lots of players who would join the one team (there was a team full of "butter" inspired names) most players just spread out amongst both teams and everyone seemed to enjoy themselves. The problem I see with auto join is that while it will help sort out those regs that play between 6pm-11pm it will also affect these other players that play at other times who have no problems with how it operates now. In fact they probably join because (1) it's populated and (2) they have the freedom to choose.

What I will do is look at the gscramble option again (hopefully it has been fixed), but let players choose their teams but use the mod to block players from swapping before and after the scramble. And choose a scramble based on scores/points. It can also be set to stop players that quit and rejoin.

As for the hard time limit, if you don't like it, put it in the thread about server 13 and if enough people agree (regular players not one offs) that they don't want it, then we can remove it.

[goosmurf]

The problem I see with auto join is that while it will help sort out those regs that play between 6pm-11pm it will also affect these other players that play at other times who have no problems with how it operates now. In fact they probably join because (1) it's populated and (2) they have the freedom to choose.

What I will do is look at the gscramble option again (hopefully it has been fixed), but let players choose their teams but use the mod to block players from swapping before and after the scramble. And choose a scramble based on scores/points. It can also be set to stop players that quit and rejoin.

That would be awesome. I agree on the auto-join thing, any solution shouldn't essentially punish everyone for the actions of a (relative) few.

As for the hard time limit, if you don't like it, put it in the thread about server 13 and if enough people agree (regular players not one offs) that they don't want it, then we can remove it.

Oh I didn't mean to say that I dislike the hard time limit. On the contrary, I think it's good. I mentioned it only to say that it makes trying to anti-stack an awful experience as if you start off on Red not only do you (frequently) get smashed by the Blu stack, you also then don't have enough time to attack so your experience of the round is two consecutive losses ... followed by two more on the next map and so forth.

But in my ideal world the solution is not to remove the hard time limit -- but if the teams are stacked that they should be shuffled after the initial round.

Could we enable !votescramble? That would help on maps where there is only one stage -- i.e. Badwater, Upward, Frontier. IIRC PL&R had it set so you needed 5 votes which seemed to work pretty well in my experience.

[skitzor]

is it stacking if I have no friends and like attacking first? am I a bad person and should I feel bad?