TF2 #14 server - help get it fixed!!!!

[Mythor]

Where's the evidence that class limits would "fix" the empty servers? Various servers fill up every night without it.
I don't see any reason to take up some of the network admin's time for something pretty much nobody wants. As I said, if you can demonstrate it's something people actually want, it'll be considered like anything else.

[Chucky]

Just from an outsiders point of view (as I haven't played TF2 in ageeeeesssss now) and for information sake, class limits killed DoD and DoD Source from memory, so I would expect it to do something similar to TF2.

People generally join to play the game the way they want, I mean they struggle with simple rules as it is, enforcing additional rules such as 1 or 2 snipers, 1-3 engineers etc would only force them to play elsewhere (imho).

[goosmurf]

Where's the evidence that class limits would "fix" the empty servers? Various servers fill up every night without it.
I don't see any reason to take up some of the network admin's time for something pretty much nobody wants. As I said, if you can demonstrate it's something people actually want, it'll be considered like anything else.

The evidence is in the history of PL&R's growth, and subsequently LaB.

PL&R started with 1 server, grew up to 6, and eventually stabilised at 4. They all ran roughly the same settings, with some minor variations -- some servers had 2 sniper/spy limit, other servers had a limit on 3 on all classes, plus a generally payload based rotation and the auto-scramble settings mentioned in the past.

When Prof Butt Rawb shut down PL&R owing to his lack of time to admin them LaB took over one of the existing PL&R servers, and the other became Hat-tf2. LaB then grew to 5 servers -- in the space of maybe 5 months. Getting onto those servers often involved loooong waits, people really really liked playing on them. To be clear, PL&R and subsequently LaB, were *all* full for many hours of the day, prior to MvM.

The reasons I stopped playing on LaB was their use of reserved slots (which made getting onto a server really irritating, as well as randomly punting you off mid-game), and the admins randomly screwing with the map rotations on a whim. For the most part it felt like the LaB admins took the community for granted.

I came back to GON because GON has hands down the best admin policies -- from the TMR process to this process of accepting player feedback which I'm battling now

What GON lacks, IMHO (and I say this with full appreciation* of the time and effort you guys already put in to make GON what it is), is the will to try things out. I don't think there is ever a perfect setup so the key to growing and maintaining a strong player base is to try things, see what works, and adapt. For the sake of providing feedback the one frustrating thing about GON is how long it takes for any changes to happen - start a thread, hope that others read AND respond knowing full well that 90% of the players never actually come to the forums. In the mean time servers sit completely empty.

*- quite seriously, although I often argue with you guys about changes I really do appreciate the effort you guys put in. I've looked at other game networks, and to name names (hehe) you could have, for example, gone down the horrible route that GamersUN took to force* HTML video ads on everyone, but you don't.

[goosmurf]

Just from an outsiders point of view (as I haven't played TF2 in ageeeeesssss now) and for information sake, class limits killed DoD and DoD Source from memory, so I would expect it to do something similar to TF2.

People generally join to play the game the way they want, I mean they struggle with simple rules as it is, enforcing additional rules such as 1 or 2 snipers, 1-3 engineers etc would only force them to play elsewhere (imho).

Just to be clear, I am not advocating for class limits to be added to all of GON's TF2 servers, just one or two of the *currently empty* servers, specifically the empty #14 that is the subject of this thread.

[Chucky]

Just to be clear, I am not advocating for class limits to be added to all of GON's TF2 servers, just one or two of the *currently empty* servers, specifically the empty #14 that is the subject of this thread.

Completely understand goosmurf.

I should have clarified that it was only on 1 of the 2 DoD, and 1 or 2 of the 3 DoD Source servers from what I remember (and was only added after community feedback to add it). Not long after those servers died in the ****, and I don't think we ever recovered the playerbase. Once players leave for another server, they rarely return unless something happens on that new server that disgusts them even more than what made them leave in the first place.

Let me also stress, my opinions should only be used as input/feedback at best, so nothing I say will have any final effect on what transpires with the server you are passionate about (only offering you insight from a retired admin)

Bickety and his team of Admins will have the final say on the matter

[goosmurf]

Once players leave for another server, they rarely return unless something happens on that new server that disgusts them even more than what made them leave in the first place.

Yep that's what I see too. I experienced this myself, and I'm guessing the re-appearance of names like Puppet, Drongsy and Mathius (previous page) indicates something has created motivation to return to GON. They were all regulars on #14 and #25 before PL&R appeared, and I saw them all on PL&R and LaB afterwards.

[Master♫Puppet]

Where's the evidence that class limits would "fix" the empty servers? Various servers fill up every night without it.
I don't see any reason to take up some of the network admin's time for something pretty much nobody wants. As I said, if you can demonstrate it's something people actually want, it'll be considered like anything else.

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/BossPayload - The evidence is here, these guys have successfully filled servers for months.
As for #14 it has been successfully vacant for months.

I don't see any reason to take up some of the network admin's time for something pretty much nobody wants. As I said, if you can demonstrate it's something people actually want, it'll be considered like anything else.[/quote]

You have people in here that actually do want it ! - class limit 2snipers/2spys and it's only 2 classes that are being affected

A suggestion for a team scramble plugin: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/21272579/team%20Scramble.JPG

I believe there's only 3 things that need changing for #14 server:

1/ Team scramble plugin - The one that has been suggested is the best one i've seen.
2/ A class limit for sniper & spy
3/ Support


Why is it so hard to make some changes to the servers, when the servers themselves have been empty for so long??

[quackbutt]

Just want to add my vote for a class limit trial (sniper/spy only). I've mostly been playing on LAB servers because of this feature (and yes, they're almost always full). I play spy quite a bit, and it can be frustrating when a couple of nubs take the spy slots, but it's better than having more than two on each team, which most often = failteam.

I like GON servers, the community, and the good admin-ing, but am totally sick of joining servers, hitting auto-assign like a good duck, and being put in a team with 3+ snipers and spies.

(side note: i have no idea why new players feel so compelled to play these two classes. they require the most game/map awareness to play effectively. Surely it can't be fun to get pwned/fail over and over again)

Interestingly, here's a thread I made requesting this feature at the start of the year: viewtopic.php?f=208&t=192077

I was swayed by the counter arguments (and prominent opposition to the idea) at the time but I have since changed my mind. Goosmurf seems to have seen the light too

I don't have enough time to play these days, so I go where I'm most likely to find a balanced game. SPy/sniper limits, for mine, are a major contributing factor to finding one; they remove one of the key markers of a rubbish game.

I also can;t reconcile mythor's arguments against. On the one hand the answer was: “No. People can play what they like, when they like. If we start limiting that on one server there'll be demands it be limited on other servers.” A 'demand' implies a desirable feature, but on the other hand it's claimed to be "something pretty much nobody wants". I don't want to have a dig here, and I hope this doesn't come across as aggressive, but I don't understand why it can't be trialled on a single server. If the server is resurrected as a result, then yay! If it stays dead, then it was dead anyway. Also, as Master Puppet argued, the full LaB servers seem to be a solid case for.

If this feature was implemented on 14 then I for one would play on it.

[Mythor]

I also can;t reconcile mythor's arguments against. On the one hand the answer was: “No. People can play what they like, when they like. If we start limiting that on one server there'll be demands it be limited on other servers.” A 'demand' implies a desirable feature, but on the other hand it's claimed to be "something pretty much nobody wants".

I was implying that people are stupid and it's a slippery slope, putting it on one server.

This is the last time I'll say it - if you think the community wants class limits set up on a server, demonstrate it. The LaB community is not Games.On.Net's community. I don't want to see GON just copying other server setups.
Every other change like this needs community support or an admin who thinks it's a good idea. I think it's a terrible idea. Maybe you could convince Bicketybam?

[goosmurf]

There's 3 people in here advocating class limits for #14.

How many do you need?

[Mythor]

More than 1/8 of 1 server?

I made a thread for the class limit discussion, continue it here: viewtopic.php?f=208&t=196703

[goosmurf]

The LaB community is not Games.On.Net's community. I don't want to see GON just copying other server setups.

FWIW, much of the PL&R/LaB community *was* Games.On.Net's community. The majority of #14 and #25 migrated to two sets of servers after the Great Stacking Debacle & Lag of 2011.

PL&R was one, GamersUN #42 was another (because it had a similar Payload rotation).

In raising the issues in this thread, and in the server proposal thread, I thought perhaps GON would be interested in recapturing that player base. I suspect that's why Master Puppet, Drongsy and Malthius all began posting here in recent times too -- I had played with all of them on #14 & #25, and subsequently PL&R/LaB. People want to see GON grow...

[Master♫Puppet]

I also can;t reconcile mythor's arguments against. On the one hand the answer was: “No. People can play what they like, when they like. If we start limiting that on one server there'll be demands it be limited on other servers.” A 'demand' implies a desirable feature, but on the other hand it's claimed to be "something pretty much nobody wants".

I was implying that people are stupid and it's a slippery slope, putting it on one server.

".

I was implying that people are stupid and it's a slippery slope, putting it on one server".

Why is it so stupid to try an fill a already empty server ?? and to put forward some ideas to fix it - How very stupid of us to even try ??

[Mythor]

People on other GON servers would see #14 has a class restriction in place and demand it be put on other servers to solve a problem that doesn't actually exist.

[Bicketybam]

I thought perhaps GON would be interested in recapturing that player base.

That's a bit misleading that comment. At the time when we had both 14 & 25 as 32 player servers we only had about 2 maybe 3 of our full rotation servers being used all the time yet after the players stopped playing on servers 14 & 25 we ended up with 5 full rotation servers being busy most nights and it has continued. Some nights can be slower then others but I would say overall more players joined then what we lost.