Time to shake up #13 maps?

[Jez]

No, what Toad said is correct. The new rotation has driven at least some of the regulars away. We've been playing a bit on #23 instead, because that's a fun rotation and a change from other servers. I'll only join #13 if I start playing late and steamfriends are already playing there.

The reason it's (often) empty is as Toad stated.

If we're going to start judging the quality of a server's map rotation by how populated it is then clearly all GON servers should switch over to quick or instaspawn 2fort. It doesn't have anything to do with the new Portal 2 DLC coming out? Rage? Or any other games?

If you want to do it right: why not have a poll here with most of the maps and let people give each one they like/don't mind playing a vote and then take the six ones with the most votes or whatever.

[Mythor]

The rotation change predates the Portal 2 DLC, Rage, Fallout DLC, BF3 beta and more.

We've always judged the popularity of a server by how many people actually play on it. The "quality" of a rotation is a meaningless and in any event immeasurable metric.
#13 regularly fills up when there's a map rotation that the regulars are happy to play on every night. Which is presently not the case.

If you want to do it right: why not have a poll here with most of the maps and let people give each one they like/don't mind playing a vote and then take the six ones with the most votes or whatever.

Because if it's done that way we get a bunch of people who've no intention of actually playing on the server chiming in on their favourite maps and we end up with a rotation like the one that's currently on the server.

If #13's going to be regularly full each night it needs a rotation more of the regulars are happy to play. I get that you think you know better but, well, the facts speak for themselves.

[Jez]

The rotation change predates the Portal 2 DLC, Rage, Fallout DLC, BF3 beta and more.

We've always judged the popularity of a server by how many people actually play on it. The "quality" of a rotation is a meaningless and in any event immeasurable metric.

I was merely replying to what Toad said when he commented that he thought the new rotation was ****, which is not the same thing as it not being populated. The rotation changes were also close to releases of things like Dead Island and RO2, my point being that you can't exclude all these things and so a declarative statement assuming that the rotation change caused the current drop in player numbers is on shaky ground.

#13 regularly fills up when there's a map rotation that the regulars are happy to play on every night. Which is presently not the case.

That may be, but my point is that a low player count or low number of regulars on the server doesn't prove that the rotation is unpopular.

Because if it's done that way we get a bunch of people who've no intention of actually playing on the server chiming in on their favourite maps and we end up with a rotation like the one that's currently on the server.

If #13's going to be regularly full each night it needs a rotation more of the regulars are happy to play. I get that you think you know better but, well, the facts speak for themselves.

Doesn't really seem to be likely, considering this thread was mostly replied to by forum and/or server regulars. It's not like this forum picks up a lot of traffic from people who don't regularly play TF2 on Internode servers. A fact that you didn't let speak for itself might be that this thread went on for a fortnight with the regulars unable to agree on what exactly a happy rotation was.

Another suggestion: start a specialised event in your steam group, each member of the group gets one comment where they get to suggest a certain number of maps they'd most like on the rotation, then you tally up the results and take the X maps that got the most votes.

Or have a preferential system wherein each member of the group gets to nominate three maps that get a +1/+2/+3 and three that get a -1/-2/-3, with the resulting points at the end used to determine map rotation.

[Bicketybam]

The only map I think grinds the server to a halt at the moment is gravelpit. I didn't want it from the start but consensus from most commenting in this thread was they wanted to see it again, yet when it comes around people leave. Everything else runs fine from what I've seen and all are basically only 2 rounds each.

Still, if people don't say anything and keep it to themselves, nothing is going to change is it?

[Jez]

The only map I think grinds the server to a halt at the moment is gravelpit. I didn't want it from the start but consensus from most commenting in this thread was they wanted to see it again, yet when it comes around people leave. Everything else runs fine from what I've seen and all are basically only 2 rounds each.

Still, if people don't say anything and keep it to themselves, nothing is going to change is it?

I did notice the other night it emptied the server from ~20 players to half that.

[GoToadGo]

You honestly think it's because of those games despite the fact that most of them came well after the server tanking?

The math here is simple.

Before rotation change = server full
After rotation change(and I'm talking a few nights at most) = server empty

Is it that hard to put 2 and 2 together?

Putting it to a vote is entirely pointless due to what Mythor said, people who THINK they're regulars chime in on things they like and don't like. They then proceed to show up for a few nights thinking we'll be their best friend right away. But in actual fact the server stacks like always(not a bad thing), they hate it, they leave and we're stuck with a **** rotation for the foreseeable future.

[Jez]

You honestly think it's because of those games despite the fact that most of them came well after the server tanking?

The math here is simple.

Before rotation change = server full
After rotation change(and I'm talking a few nights at most) = server empty

Is it that hard to put 2 and 2 together?

Putting it to a vote is entirely pointless due to what Mythor said, people who THINK they're regulars chime in on things they like and don't like. They then proceed to show up for a few nights thinking we'll be their best friend right away. But in actual fact the server stacks like always(not a bad thing), they hate it, they leave and we're stuck with a **** rotation for the foreseeable future.

That's why I said use the steam group if you're worried about people who don't qualify as regulars voicing an opinion.

[PnR bots]

Case of the Hydro cycle. (We'll use Hydro as an example) I'm not an expert, but I think I know a thing or two about running servers.

Everybody say they love Hydro, but when Hydro is the next map. Nobody stays for it. Empty dead server leads to sad server owner. Sad server owner leads to removing Hydro off the rotation. Removing Hydro off the rotation leads to people crying lack of variety in maps. Lack of map variety leads to server owner putting Hydro up for discussion.

And everybody say they love Hydro.......

You guys can read more TF2 theories in my latest book. "I'll listen to your opinions, but I'm the decider: I'm bored at work, and this is what I do to kill time. I'd post this my own forum, but I don't have one" By Professor Rawrb. Published by PnR Entertainment.

Good day.

[mkeating]

I'm going to bump this...

Any chance of getting Gullywash taken out? Hydro has more players on the server, and is more enjoyable.

The map is pretty boring, but its really easy for one team to get a rush going and decimate to the end cap. Even after a scramble, it's too easy for one side to get a roll on.

[Gismo]

Another bump time... may as well leave all #13 change requests in one thread so we have some history about arguments for and against maps over time.

#13 was good last night (primarily on account of good players present!) and there was little 'exit en mass' due to a particular map at any time, but I still think the rotation is getting a little tiresome.

Current Rotation:

Foundry
Hoodoo
Egypt
Badwater
Hydro
Frontier
Steel
Upwards

I'm suggesting:

Removal of Foundry and Hydro
Removal of Upwards?
Retain Steel (most regs haven't seemed to complain at it, and it's a good way of making the whingey randoms RQ!
Addition of Pipeline with round restriction (but possibly more than just one round as those three sections can be over quite quickly if teams are good)
Addition of Dustbowl Payload (from #23) for something a little different
Wouldn't mind the addition of something older (Gorge or Coldfront perhaps) or non-traditional (short round of Dodgeball or something?)

Comments? Ideas?

[Artful-dodgeR]

Looks good to me! Would probably prefer the old maps suggestion over dodgeball

[Mythor]

I like Upward.
I hate Steel.
If we were to nick something from #23, what about Waste rather than Dustbowl?
Hells yes to Pipeline, maybe with a hard time limit rather than a round limit?
Dodgeball is too broken. Not thrilled about either Gorge or Coldfront but not sure what to suggest other than that.

[Gismo]

I don't know if I believe in my own suggestions anyway (other than removing Foundry and Hydro, and adding Pipeline).. just throwing random ideas out there to generate discussion.

[Mythor]

I'd grown a bit tired of Foundry even before it became Girder so I'm okay with that being gone. Think most of the regulars have the achievements and the spiffy hat at this point.

What about Thundermountain making a combeack?

[Hedwig]

Would like Hydro gone.