Warfare Balance Discussion

[Xerxes17]

Any comment on the APC idea Markus?

[Tonmeister.]

ah... right, musta missed that in your notes previously then.

[Kenex05]

Hijacking the res armour early is smarter than destroying it outright.

It is theoretically true, then the problem traces back to "Who is the Mashman?", "Where is the mash?", "Who is the lockpick(s)?" ...

I'm sick of shouting these questions and getting no response or seeing people who aren't doing their jobs properly. I find it very annoying that when you 'de-crewed' a vehicle but no one actually cared to unlock or to respond at the end.

Maybe we should tag the player's role on the map just like how the ambulances are being tagged.

[Goshawk]

Maybe we should just get rid of these stupid specialisation slots altogether. No more mashman, engies, medics, spotters or lock pickers.

[PlacidBox]

But then how will i fix my uaz after plowing through a forest at 100kph?

The APCS won't really help, the problem with late game infantry isn't the amount you carry, it's the huge number of vehicles that are insanely good at killing infantry from kilometers away. A 20 man or 4 man squad will die with very little difference to the abrams on that hill shelling a town.

It's basically the reason you need ambos when walking around, because it's easy to get spotted and killed if you aren't inside 300m of forest on a hill, and you need that respawn to be able to pop the 10+ MBTs you'll probably see in a 120/120 town.

Having more infantry pop out of your ambo then instantly die isn't going to change much about how you play on foot in benny's warfare...

Respawn tickets, so you can only use a Tent/Ambulance so many times before it is used up?

Would be excellent, if you manage to not make a horribly broken implementation. Makes me want to fix my PC so I can implement it...

[Kenex05]

Maybe we should just get rid of these stupid specialisation slots altogether. No more mashman, engies, medics, spotters or lock pickers.

How are we going to balance the number of specialisation slots when playable slots are going to be increased (or more in the future). I always thought a perk system would be awesome. A personal upgrade system that uses Money/XP/Perk Points/whatever-you-call-it (Determined by how many towns you have captured/helped or something similar) to upgrade perks you want to have, e.g. Increased number of maximum AIs, Heal, Lockpick, Repair etc.
Just add some RPG elements into warfare to make it more interesting.

[MarkusNemesis]

Any comment on the APC idea Markus?

I don't see anything wrong with making them function like ambulances, but, that's hardly a niche role, and the M113 M2 vs the AAV is already a listing boat.

[Tonmeister.]

Hijacking the res armour early is smarter than destroying it outright.

It is theoretically true, then the problem traces back to "Who is the Mashman?", "Where is the mash?", "Who is the lockpick(s)?" ....

where am I? Who am I? And are you my mummy? These are all questions we'll never be able to answer in a 3hr match. Alas, I think warfare is missing the "group hug" upgrade, or the unit specialisation that can administer group hugs to quell these frustrations. It wouldn't take much to script and implement I'm sure.

I'm just unsure of how to balance this new addition...

[Sky Monster]

Did you know (?) that you can tell who is the mashman/lockpickers yourself by going into team menu, where you give cash out, and seeing who is in slots [3/4] (pickers) and slot [11] (mashman).

Then you can verbally abuse whoever is in the slot if they are not doing their job.

[mincepie]

their slot number also appears on the map next to their name

[Freeborne]

• Give everyone the ability to change tyres on their cars.
• Change the spawned units for Town Defence, and remove some of the heavy armour, maybe replace with more AT infantry.

Please don't spit **** that vehicles are over-powered. I don't think I've ever seen one of you guys back up your statements with figures or some research when arguing about vehicles vs infantry.

6x Metis soldiers = $6000
M1A1 = $6360

This is AFTER Radioman's large increase to AT prices!

AI vs AI, the Metis soldiers should win every time, unless you're too useless to spread them out and position them in good spots.

I agree that a "good" player in a tank can decimate lots of infantry easily, if they are actively scanning and/or using thermal vision. A good player however can be even more effective at decimating whole tank columns as well, using a simple ambulance or MASH. It won't cost them much, will bleed the enemy team dry, and earn them a lot of bounty.

This is why Warfare games are broken. A vastly poorer team can defeat a richer team (richer, because they were winning at the start).

BLUFOR caps lots of towns, starts to rake in the supply and income. OPFOR struggle to cap many towns.
They upgrade to HF2, then purchase lots of tanks, and push forward.
They encounter OPFOR, that pushed for Gear 3 (which is cheaper than Heavy 2).
OPFOR just blow away all the tanks with the Metis.
BLUFOR teams run out of money.
OPFOR make lots of bounty.

The whole game gets turned around at this stage, and a lot of the advantage BLUFOR made in the start is undone in 30 minutes. We have all seen this happen in majority of games, so don't deny it doesn't happen. A simple bit of maths comparing AT vs Heavy prices proves the point.

So again, tanks are NOT over-powered. They may have a lot of fire-power, but they are still vulnerable and can be one-shot killed just like infantry, with vastly cheaper weapons.


PlacidBox is on the right track though if you want to encourage the use of infantry, you have to decrease the amount of armour. Instead of having 20+ infantry with heavy AT, we need to reduce the number of tanks.

I still don't agree that there is too many tanks in the game though. If you include Town Defences, then yes, but two 120/120 towns usually have MORE tanks then the combined players on a single side. In a full game (16 vs 16) most do NOT own a tank, or several.

The easiest option I can think of is to increase the price of vehicles (particularly armour) even more, and increase price of all forms of AT as well. This would take a lot of planning and number crunching though.

Very rough example:
Basic rifleman would cost $120.
M1A1 would cost $9,000
Metis soldier would cost $3,000.
GPK would stay at $850.
HMMW Tow increased to $4,000.

You can then buy all the infantry you could ever want, so long as you aren't buying entire platoons of heavy AT soldiers.

[Goshawk]

Freebourne, all I gathered from that post is that the Metis is broken. We all know that but balancing it without gimping OpFor handheld AT is going to be very difficult.


Balancing on price and damage output alone is retarded. You can't just open up a table of figures and balance this game mode on that. Yes x6 Metis soldiers might win against a single M1A1 but you won't ever see those same x6 Metis soldiers cap multiple towns and kill a base. This is the reason a tank is more expensive than one of it's direct counters, because it's more capable in the overall scheme of things. Plus a tank is more mobile and has less hard counters against it than infantry do. It is also far better at maintaining battlefield situational awareness....unfortunately infantry don't come equipped with an omnipotent radar that detects everything.


Tanks should be used in conjunction with infantry or light vehicles but no one ever does, they just rambo about in their steel beast at 140mph tab locking anything that shows up as a dot on their radar. If they die they just go buy another one at ~$6k and rinse/repeat.

[EasyC]

Give the smaw back to opfor and make it shoot maaws rockets, then you can delete the metis for all I care.

[MarkusNemesis]

Give the smaw back to opfor and make it shoot maaws rockets.

Not without a mandatory mod.

[uncoitus interruptus]

strip down the mandos mod so it only includes shoulder fired AT?