Warfare Balance Discussion

[MarkusNemesis]

Can we have a version for testing an increase in player slots in your current unreleased RE version. As Benny's beta version is currently providing 48 and 56 slots (for a 3 sided warfare) I recommend going for 40 or 48 slots to start with. The degree of Benny's optimization with the current beta is yet to be seen, but I imagine this has partly driven the increase in slots. The results from the time dilation tests you've done is also promising. Finally with the rise in the number of new players to the GoN warfare server I think its reasonable to increase the playable slots and we can test the server and see if it can handle the increased capacity under performance conditions.

What does everyone think?

0.4v will feature an increased slot version up to 40 slots, but will be optional. Tidi should help the server cope with the additional load.

[Tonmeister.]

thats good news. lets see how it all goes once its up.

[MarkusNemesis]

I've now implemented a change to the gear system that stops you from saving weapons and magazines into your gear, if they're outside of your current gear level. No more "Run over the RPG-7 occupation spawn and save his gear" shenanigans.

With this, I'll be bringing the RPG-7 and AT specialist barracks level req to level 1 again.

[Freeborne]

Nice work!

I like these type of improvements and fixes. Adding car horns and such is probably getting a little off-track in my opinion, but all the other stuff is definite improvement (still need a few tweaks for pricing).

Can you try giving the LAV25 the same cannon as the BTR90? The ROF of the LAV25 is just so woeful it's useless against any armoured targets. I'd happily pay up to $2500 for it then.

Also if you're a BLUFOR engineer, you spawn with a backpack with 2 mines and 2 satchels. You can easily respawn with "default gear" and use those to blow up bases or disabled tanks, long before Gear 2.

[Xerxes17]

Can you try giving the LAV25 the same cannon as the BTR90? The ROF of the LAV25 is just so woeful it's useless against any armoured targets. I'd happily pay up to $2500 for it then.

This is totally Yep, let's make the sides complete mirrors of each other slowly but surely...

[Sky Monster]

Nice work!Can you try giving the LAV25 the same cannon as the BTR90? The ROF of the LAV25 is just so woeful it's useless against any armoured targets. I'd happily pay up to $2500 for it then.

No thanks. LAV is fine for what it does, what level it is, and how much it costs. Use an MGS or a Stryker TOW if you want to kill armour... Or even put jav troops in your LAV.

[Xerxes17]

But using Ai is for nooobz!?!

Today I had the thought that we should add ambo respawn to the light APC's like M113 and the AAV. This would encourage infantry play and give the APC's a role seperate from IFV's like the BMP or Bradley.

[Freeborne]

How does adding respawn to M113 or AAV encourage infantry play?

If I buy an AAV, I won't risk using it to attack a town with my AI piloting it, when it's my respawn point. I will park it behind cover, or use it myself, where I can react to threats more quickly and not get it blown up by an Insurgent RPG. How does that promote infantry play?

If I use a M113 Ambulance, Hummer, Vodnik, or MEV, I can still load them up with infantry, AND I will always have to get out and fight on foot myself.

Can you explain how "this would encourage infantry play" ?


I do agree that having more infantry would be nice to see, but I believe the best way to achieve that is making vehicles and AT more expensive.

[Rob_OFP]

all of these nerfs and tweaks are turning into madness, can we just have concrete walls back? The prices for some of the AT ammo are getting ridiculous, instead of saving tanks for lockpicking just going to start blowing them up so i'm not broke for half the game.

[Xerxes17]

While the current crop of ambo's can load infantry, they can only fit 4-6 which is just a fire-team or light squad. The M113/AAV would function as "battle taxis" delivering a large squad of infantry to the combat area and still allow the player directing the troops to get stuck in with them rather than have to stay back and command. While you can just bring along an ambulance, that has co-ordination problems at times. Additionally, this gives the M113/AAV a distinct role from the IFV's which isn't "worse IFV". It is entirely up to the player if they wish to use it in direct combat or not, but these vehicles would be much more suited to delivery and movement.

This also gives a nice "end game" option for infantry players once tanks show up as it would go.
Basic Ambo > Advanced Ambo > APC

The increased transport capacity would also make the idea of taking along dedicated AA/ATGM cover teams much more viable as you are removing a lower percentage of your active bayonets from the main force.

I might also add that this would be a massive boon for BLUFOR as rolling up to a town with 20 soldiers to attack or defend isn't anything to sneeze at.

I'd say it would also give incentive to people to try out having infantry as there's a perception issue. Many would probably say that a tank is definitely more powerful than 6 soldiers. Now 12-20, that changes. At the very least, we could add in the parameter "APC respawn" to test the idea and if it's found wanting, can remove it.

[MarkusNemesis]

The prices for some of the AT ammo are getting ridiculous, instead of saving tanks for lockpicking just going to start blowing them up so i'm not broke for half the game.

Your logic is flawless, please keep posting.

[Freeborne]

IMEV = 1
M113 ambo = 4
HMMW Ambo = 6
Vodnik = 6
=================
M113 = 13
AAV = 22

With exception of yourself, will many players want to buy so many AI and put them in one basket? Having so many AI, along with infinite respawn, would make it much easier for one person to take a town by themselves. Isn't it better to encourage two players working together, one driving the APC, another driving the ambulance?

Some alternative ideas:

• Have more than one Mashman slot (they seem redundant when you get LF2, and everyone goes and buys cheap ambulances).
• Deploying tents cost money, make ambulances more expensive (WASP charges $5000).
• Respawn tickets, so you can only use a Tent/Ambulance so many times before it is used up?

I like having expensive AT, but Rob's logic IS flawless. I told you before the prices were too high, and even with the increased bounty, players would end up broke at the start

Scenario:
Bounty = 35%
BMP2 = $2500
T34 = $2400

I assault Bastam. I disable 2x BMP-2's, 2x T34's, using RPG18's. Luckily, none blow up with delayed explosions.
It cost me $2100 to equip myself, including the 3 extra RPG18's. Let's assume best case scenario, and I never died.
To make my money back, I kill 2x BMP2's. That cost me another 2x RPG18's ($800).
I'm now $2900 out of pocket, but the two tank kills earn me $1800 (approx) bounty.
I kill the 2x T34's, raising my costs to $3800, earning another $1700 for a total bounty of $3500.

Killed 4 tanks. Never died. Out of pocket about $300.

[Xerxes17]

Were you born with this ability to miss the point or did you have to work on it?

IMEV = 1
M113 ambo = 4
HMMW Ambo = 6
Vodnik = 6
=================
M113 = 13
AAV = 22

With exception of yourself, will many players want to buy so many AI and put them in one basket? Having so many AI, along with infinite respawn, would make it much easier for one person to take a town by themselves. Isn't it better to encourage two players working together, one driving the APC, another driving the ambulance?

If the APC players worked together they could take a town more than twice faster than operating alone due to the nonlinear effect increasing relative firepower has. It would also open up new tactical possibilities like pincer attacks or having a dedicated fire support covering an assaulting group. Increasing the ability for individual infantry players will do nothing to decrease the desire for teamwork. This will encourage teamwork even more so then having an APC and an ambo team.

Will players make use of it? I'm sure some will and a some others more will be interested and give it a shot when they would not usually. I'm sure a few will when they keep trying to attack a town that one of these APC squad players is holding keeps stopping their armor attacks dead.

Some alternative ideas:

• Deploying tents cost money, make ambulances more expensive (WASP charges $5000).
• Respawn tickets, so you can only use a Tent/Ambulance so many times before it is used up?

These are terrible ideas.

[Tonmeister.]

I actually recall Radioman saying that AT prices were going to come down with the next release. The AT argument is pointless. In actual fact, since playing the current 0.3 version there's only been a few times in the early stages where I've been frustratingly close to having no cash. Hijacking the res armour early is smarter than destroying it outright.

[MarkusNemesis]

I actually recall Radioman saying that AT prices were going to come down with the next release. The AT argument is pointless. In actual fact, since playing the current 0.3 version there's only been a few times in the early stages where I've been frustratingly close to having no cash. Hijacking the res armour early is smarter than destroying it outright.

AT price drop was redacted from the 0.4v feature list, as observations in-game has suggested they've had the desired effect. That being, less "I haz two metis, pow pow! *respawns, repeat*"

Meanwhile, progress report:

Stryker MEV now has a horn so you can spam it at the start of rounds
Stryker CV is now forever gone, the LAV is now the standard HQ, regardless of map.
Mi17 MEDEVAC now has flares.
You can no longer sell base buildings if your HQ has been destroyed.
Ambulances now show as a [+] on the map.

More to come!

p.s: If anyone knows where the script that triggers towns is, I'd greatly appreciate you letting me know.