Warfare .71 now out

[UnderTow]

^^
possibly one of the most arrogant and rediculous posts ever!

i cant post here anymore coz ive said my opinion?...lmao!!!

[PlacidBox]

It has me baffled and god knows what BIS have done...

Yeah, I've no idea what's up with that, but they seem to have fixed it in the latest patch.

Placidbox and Freeborn don't use the expensive attack aircraft and they seem fine with it...

Well, Freeborne doesn't because he's an awful pilot

I stopped using most of the good attack aircraft because they're just not challenging to fly, more fun to go around with a rocket sled or ah6j.

why is there a need to change prices?

is it u want games to be owned by aircraft?

its funny how the people that spam all teh aircraft are the ones wanting their planes cheaper

also if u want to edit the mission thats fine but make it a new version and dont overwrite the other version.

there is no need for 2 or 3 ppl dictating what the settings should be.

The current prices mean no one will ever buy any air, you just won't be able to make money back on it. He's changing them to still be more expensive than .70, but not completely unreachable prices.

Currently most games aren't even decided by aircraft, they're decided by people in massive numbers of tanks.

[Freeborne]

UH60M has flares, but you have it as $15,000, less than Mi17/Mi-8T.
Huey and UH60S are pretty similar, but Huey is $5000 cheaper.



It's true I'm pretty **** flying jets from lack of practice. My dislike for jets and choppers, is they can dominate the game. Aircraft without RWR or flares should also not be underestimated in the power they have either. I used Huey's frequently last night (to prove a point) to scout your base and took our several facs easily by doing this (at one point I landed on your MHQ and let off 3 sats). I was shot down once when I flew over AI town and two Avengers got me (one from carelessness, out of 6+ flights).

Prior to .71 it was a common occurring theme that BLUFOR would decimate OPFOR at taking towns and leading on the scoreboard, yet OPFOR often won by getting air superiority, despite being vastly poorer. The entire start and middle part of Warfare games for the most part were pointless <insert BLUFOR rage>. It didn't matter if your team played a better game, because aircraft were game-ending pieces. Often OPFOR just pooled their money to give one or two players all this power.



Why is .71 better?

Aircraft are much more expensive. Pooling together for these game-turning assets would put a losing team in debt. They can't be spammed frequently, especially by a losing team.


I've played about a half dozen games now with .71 and every game has been much more enjoyable than 2.70 Warfare. I've still seen aircraft fielded by both sides, but not in constant waves like before. If you're team is winning, or you hold a decent amount of towns, it's still easy to spam the cheaper aircraft. Baskerville and I did this last night, alternating who paid for the aircraft and we kept spamming aircraft so that all we did for an hour was assault your bases without pause. My highest balance at one point was $65k but I never saved, and purchased several Huey's, T90's and Mi-8T's. So I could have easily purchased any jet if I bothered to be frugal.

So, my points are:
- Aircraft is still very affordable if your team plays well.
- Top-end aircraft is affordable if your team pools resources.
- Top-end aircraft can't be spammed (especially if you're team has low income).
- Low-end aircraft are still very effective and affordable.
- .71 games have been longer and more enjoyable.

Some assets (like A10) should probably be adjusted 'a little', but are pretty close to what they should be. No aircraft should be less than $10k. A10's at $45K are too cheap and means air will be spawned every 5-10 minutes (money pooling), so moving MHQ's becomes too risky, and we end up with stalemate games like we used to play/hate.


Placid you look at it completely wrong. Aircraft should not be revenue making assets. Assets are exponentially more expensive based on how powerful they are. A T90 can cost $6000 (approx) and have to kill 50 AI, or YOU 50x before it breaks even. You can kill it for $0 with a Metis (which paid itself off long ago from several AI vehicle kills you would have got with it). Every other asset is no difference (think of the terrible value for money of nukes).

I rarely see 'massive numbers' of tanks, so I have no idea where you get this idea from. Do you really think there should be 1x A10 for every 7 T90's? At 3 hours in a game, that probably means an A10 in the air every 10 minutes, which would often mean constant air presence, making all tank production a waste of time, leading to stalemate games where both teams can't advance and ... that's how 2.070 use to play out, and it sucked.

[Goshawk]

Long games will often turn into tank fights as with aircraft so expensive players will go for the next best thing.

Anyway, Im assuming its the jets that most people have a problem with? Why dont we just try chopper only games? As for you landing on an mhq with you huey, try that against a competent commander who actually does his job by placing defenses instead of sitting around with their thumb up their arse.

Also, the MH60 has flares yes but it also does not have the MWS so unless youre spamming flares the entire time youre airbourne then you will have no idea a missile is coming at you making those flares near useless. Aircraft like the SU25 and A10 also lack tgis MWS and thus are HUGE potential liabilitiea for the purchasing player. As soon as these aircraft are seen a single player with a handheld AA can kill one.

Perhaps teams should be proactive with their air defence plans instead of reactive.

[PlacidBox]

Anyway, Im assuming its the jets that most people have a problem with? Why dont we just try chopper only games? As for you landing on an mhq with you huey, try that against a competent commander who actually does his job by placing defenses instead of sitting around with their thumb up their arse.

If we got an option to turn off attack aircraft and heavy attack choppers i'd be fine (sus, hinds, ah1z, av8b, ah64 being off etc.) Just having jets off makes the blufor air far far better, especially when you can EASA up 8 sidewinders on to blufor choppers.

Also, freeborne, i meant cost effectiveness. With, say, an average player in an av8b, they'll usually get downed by a tung after killing as little as 4 tanks. Compared to sitting on a hill with an ambo, respawning for free javelins, it just doesn't compete at all.

I'm all for aircraft being team assests, but with the current price scaling it's just far more effective to get a dirt cheap tank and lose it quickly charging in than it is to fly a jet well.

[Sky Monster]

Key word in imps post "COMPETENT"

Freeborne, what you are saying is mostly correct, but it relies on one team being complete idiots in regard to not being proactive with AA. ie the 5 people on sanginakt who couldn't defend our HQ nor kill yours with NLAWS (because apparently they are impossible to dumbfire onto facs?? - DERP). God knows why the :UNNAMED COMMANDER: didn't get on the .50 in the stryker and light you the f*ck up.

As soon as I spawned at HQ I shot you in the face, unfortunately you had already taken aim and gotten a SMAW off. I then turn around to see 5 of my team mates standing around our dead HQ tugging their willys. It ends with me being shot in the back by your MI8 gunner and not being able to respawn because our HQ was dead and that's all that was there.

[Goshawk]

lol placid by turning all those a/c off youve just ptetty much set it to ytansport choppers anyway.

Attack choppers are generally fine until EASA comes into it which personally I think shouldnt effect choppers anyway. If a player wants the 8sidewinder AH then they should just buy that one. Obviously this would require small edits to the mission.

Blufors attack helo advantage is somewhat countered by the Tung. You can effectiveley fight Ipfor helos using avenger and linebacker as opfor helos only carry 4 AT missiles and have to get close and front on to use anything else.

[Sky Monster]

Kamov has 8 Atakas and 4 R73s. Don't even get me started on the EASA loudouts for the Kamov which I believe enables you to have 12 R73s...

[Goshawk]

Kamov has 8 Atakas and 4 R73s. Don't even get me started on the EASA loudouts for the Kamov which I believe enables you to have 12 R73s...

This was a balance change introduced by Wraith and should no longer be present with .71 version. As for EASA this again reiterates my point that EASA on choppers should go.

[Baskerville]

Yeah for some reason R73's are now present on the Kamov in 0.71 without Wraiths intervention but Blufor get the AH-1Z which has AA by default too so it's all good.

The only difference is the Kamov has an exceptional range.

[PlacidBox]

Yeah for some reason R73's are now present on the Kamov in 0.71

Because each side must be a mirror image to be balanced

[Baskerville]

So by Bennys logic both sides get the same vehicles and are painted red and blue for the different sides.

Thats balanced...

[SnatchReamer]

So, my points are:
- Aircraft is still very affordable if your team plays well.
- Top-end aircraft is affordable if your team pools resources.
- Top-end aircraft can't be spammed (especially if you're team has low income).
- Low-end aircraft are still very effective and affordable.
- .71 games have been longer and more enjoyable.

I agree with the above. Especially the last one.


Also, some good convo going on in this thread. One of the better threads for a while.
Quite a few decent ideas floating about.

[uncoitus interruptus]

No way should the A-10 be over 50k it's only good for maybe 2 or 3 passes on a base before it'll get shot down, even less if the enemy allready have AA up.

Although it does have a pretty sweet HUD and cannon for strafing, so it could potentially do alot of damage in 1 or 2 passes.

[Freeborne]

Also, freeborne, i meant cost effectiveness. With, say, an average player in an av8b, they'll usually get downed by a tung after killing as little as 4 tanks. Compared to sitting on a hill with an ambo, respawning for free javelins, it just doesn't compete at all.

This is how & why Warfare now works and that is my point.

You guys just need to understand how you used air in the past was wrong. You abused the affordability of these assets and dominated a game you were often losing by spamming them.

An AV8B should not be cost effective (not in the way you want to use it). In the past, aircraft were too cost effective for the power they had in the game. A T90 is not cost effective either when you're going up against 15x Javelin AI.

An AV8B (to use this example) should be used (IMHO) to destroy enemy bases with someone pointing a laser designator. When sending tanks or light vehicles against the enemy base is pointless (eg: Mount Sanginakt) then the AV8B becomes effective and worth the cost (especially if you take out the Tungs with a chopper hovering below mountain range). Same theory applies with Nukes. I don't understand why you think you should be able to fly an AV8B into enemy territory and mop up several tank kills to recoup your costs.

Similar theory with AH64. At that price people won't gamble with them like they did (i.e just keep assaulting enemy bases and hunting MHQ) and use them more for defence, and helping team-mates take major towns by neutralizing armour.


As I said before, the more powerful something is the the more exponentially expensive something is, AND thus the less cost effective it is.
BDRM vs 3x AI Heavy AT
T90 vs 15x of AI Heavy AT
AH64 vs 7 Tunguska's
1x Nuke vs 25+ tanks.

Teams can still afford these expensive aircraft, but they need to be the winning team and have financial superiority over the other team. Traditional OPFOR players haven't grasped this concept yet because they're used to buying the most expensive assets just by pooling money together and in the past it was still enough to spam aircraft while only holding a few towns.

Right now, it WORKS. It's really that simple.


Coitus - You guys seem to think all aircraft should be for taking out handfuls of tanks and enemy factories (i.e dominating the game). Use the A10 to take out transport choppers, town armour, or surgical strikes on a fleeing HQ.

A10's shouldn't fly around enemy territory aimlessly looking for tank targets. Wait for ground troops to call in CAS, after confirming AA has been neutralized.