Same Old, Same Old: TERA Shallow Revolution Proves That MMO's Need to Change, And Now

[TRB]

unfortunately the combat in eve is more boring in then star trek, so thats saying something.

Black prophecy is nearly where space combat should be.

[James Pinnell]

unfortunately the combat in eve is more boring in then star trek, so thats saying something.

Black prophecy is nearly where space combat should be.

When you're flying enormous ships with tons of missile batteries against human opponents, it's not boring at all ;p

[Da Chucky]

unfortunately the combat in eve is more boring in then star trek, so thats saying something.

Black prophecy is nearly where space combat should be.

When you're flying enormous ships with tons of missile batteries against human opponents, it's not boring at all ;p

James is right on that front. Plus it's that much better when you know that when you blow up their ship, you just caused serious damage them (on account of them actually losing stuff).

And like I said last page, if space combat still isn't the thing for you, check out DUST 514.

[TRB]

When you're flying enormous ships with tons of missile batteries against human opponents, it's not boring at all ;p

James is right on that front. Plus it's that much better when you know that when you blow up their ship, you just caused serious damage them (on account of them actually losing stuff).

And like I said last page, if space combat still isn't the thing for you, check out DUST 514.

Eve isn't really space combat though, its context menus where you go and orbit a target at a particular distance.
there is no real direct control.
where as in something like black prophecy [very much like old freelancer] its direct control, its actual space combat.

Believe me I'm very familiar with Eve and its combat, my clan/squad are heavily into null sec/low sec pvp.

So yeah PVP with loss can be fun, but the combat in and of itself isn't.
Don't confuse the 2.

What you 2 seem to be talking about is the PvP, not the actual controlling of the ship.

[Marius]

Yeah that's basically what I meant. There's no actual, direct control of the guns or ship. Every gun or missile battery is auto targetted. When you start firing, it all auto reloads and auto fires as well.

[TRB]

bingo.

[James Pinnell]

Yeah that's basically what I meant. There's no actual, direct control of the guns or ship. Every gun or missile battery is auto targetted. When you start firing, it all auto reloads and auto fires as well.

You're talking like EVE is FFXIII, where you don't have to pay attention and it's not exciting.

Also, your guns and missile batteries don't auto target, you manually choose and lockon to targets, then allocate turrets or batteries to fire on that target.

It's not direct fire, but it's more of an RTS style of play. You don't directly fire in an RTS, you control the players and they take the shots.

In EVE combat, I'll be modifying my ammo types to fit the opponent, taking distance, accuracy and fire speed into account. I'll be managing a fleet of combat drones. I'm watching my damage.

I could have over 15 active opponents, which I need to prioritise. I also need to manage other weaponry, like warp jammers and stasis fields, my defence capabilities (shield and armour modifications) and a zillion other things.

Frankly, anyone who's played the game for 6 months or more knows what I'm talking about. If you only played the tutorial for a few weeks it's easy to get a misconception of the game when you're zapping an auto cannon at the EVE equivalent of murloks.

[revengous]

Frankly, anyone who's played the game for 6 months or more knows what I'm talking about. If you only played the tutorial for a few weeks it's easy to get a misconception of the game when you're zapping an auto cannon at the EVE equivalent of murloks.

in this one mission, the npc ships were way stronger than I was. one of the best battles I had with friends, we are all orbiting around while multiple npc ships with bounties over 500k shooting at us in our weak as frigates.

[Marius]

I used to play EVE for about 3 months. so not heaps of experience, but enough to see how the game is like. And any game that requires more than 6 months is an absolutely horrid design anyway. Games should be grabbing within the first 5 minutes.

It's not direct fire, but it's more of an RTS style of play. You don't directly fire in an RTS, you control the players and they take the shots.

In EVE combat, I'll be modifying my ammo types to fit the opponent, taking distance, accuracy and fire speed into account. I'll be managing a fleet of combat drones. I'm watching my damage.

I could have over 15 active opponents, which I need to prioritise. I also need to manage other weaponry, like warp jammers and stasis fields, my defence capabilities (shield and armour modifications) and a zillion other things.

You're not really contradicting me, though...

You're stating EVE is indirect control like an RTS. RTS also suffer from the problem I'm talking about... you play the system. I'm stating that I prefer direct control in any game.

I've been playing Age of Conan since release because I like the very direct combat. There's no cooldowns at all.

I quit SWTOR after a couple of months, partly because the combat simply bored me. The global cooldown and rotation-based play made me feel separated from the character.

I'm looking forward to GW2 because with the thief, at least, there's no cooldowns and the combat looks to be like you play the character, not the system.

[TRB]

Yeah that's basically what I meant. There's no actual, direct control of the guns or ship. Every gun or missile battery is auto targetted. When you start firing, it all auto reloads and auto fires as well.

You're talking like EVE is FFXIII, where you don't have to pay attention and it's not exciting.

Also, your guns and missile batteries don't auto target, you manually choose and lockon to targets, then allocate turrets or batteries to fire on that target.

It's not direct fire, but it's more of an RTS style of play. You don't directly fire in an RTS, you control the players and they take the shots.

In EVE combat, I'll be modifying my ammo types to fit the opponent, taking distance, accuracy and fire speed into account. I'll be managing a fleet of combat drones. I'm watching my damage.

I could have over 15 active opponents, which I need to prioritise. I also need to manage other weaponry, like warp jammers and stasis fields, my defence capabilities (shield and armour modifications) and a zillion other things.

Frankly, anyone who's played the game for 6 months or more knows what I'm talking about. If you only played the tutorial for a few weeks it's easy to get a misconception of the game when you're zapping an auto cannon at the EVE equivalent of murloks.

Most of what you're talking about applies to any serious adversarial combat game rather then actually applying to EVE itself.

you manually choose and lockon to targets

This stuck out, because by that what you mean is you use a mouse selection system via menus to perform 'aiming'.

Its not really aiming though, its all chance.

Where as what I'm talking about is something like black prophecy, WWIIonline, IL2 .etc .etc
where its your skill, your hand-eye coordination, your estimation of the range .etc that decides who wins.

thats the kind of combat I like in pvp.

Not who's been subbed for 6 years and has 34098703894598273498723094872394872093874 skill points.

I'm beta testing a [just went to beta last week, early stages] game with this style of combat and it is immense fun.
Just last night had some gun whining that I killed him with 1 shot 3 times in a row, because he didn't understand that the 'vehicles' in this game don't have hit points, they have an accurate damage model inside a game engine with a realistic ballistics setting, where just changing your range by a few meters or changing the angle of your armour plating a few degrees is the difference between being penetrated an not.
not some make believe hit point system [such as is found in most games, world of tanks is a fine example].

Its that kind of gameplay/combat system where its my skill Vs the skill of someone else that decides the outcome, not how lucky I was with the invisible dice roll that either means I hit or miss.

[Marius]

Hmm, I don't know if I was really clear.

I'm aware that EVE has a lot of switching and stuff.

But one thing really sticks out to me as ****: auto reloading.

By auto targetting I basically meant that you may perform the first lock on, but the game then keeps you locked on and firing.

Whereas if I go play Age of Conan, I can't tell the game to keep performing a combo for me over and over.

For me, a game doesn't need to be wildly innovative, but it does need to have a good 'feedback' system. This is a mix of things, ranging from personal control over aspects of combat, right down to visuals and sound effects.

It's actually impossible for me to enjoy any game without great sound.

[Erratum]

James Pinnell has been to the lands of [app=8815]TERA[/app] for a preview, fought in their 'revolutionary combat', and returned to tell the tale - but the tale is one of sadness at just how stagnant MMO's have become.

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