Same Old, Same Old: TERA Shallow Revolution Proves That MMO's Need to Change, And Now

[Plonker]

I have fond memories of Ultima Online as well.

No quests, but there was always something to do.

Go fishing for those awesome treasure maps in bottles, busting your arse to learn cartography so you could find the treasure. Only to fish up a Kraken, that would smash your face in and leave your boat stranded in the sea. Then take the offer of the kind chap to help you get your boat back, only to realise 10 minutes later you're a noob and he's just nicked it. What an eye opener. :P

Not everyone was an arsehole though, one chap took me under his wing, he had this massive tower with all this amazing rares in his house. It was amazing what he amassed and really inspired me to work towards my first house. He made me this shiny set of gold armour, it obviously caught someone's eye in town. Chap invited me adventuring, so off I go following, "just through the portal" he said. Wasn't long before I was laying dead in Felucca, watching those **** loot my gold armour off my corpse one piece at a time.

So.. Most people were arseholes it turned out. :D

I remember going off on one of those awesome treasure high-level map expeditions with like 50 people, no organised raids or dungeons, just people banding together to get something done. At the end of the treasure hunting it would be player run auction, all the profits split between the group. People used to organise the Drake fighting tournaments, I've still got a screenshot of me streaking through the arena screaming something stupid. Everyone cheered when I got pummelled by a Drake.

No auction house, but there was always someone running a market or you could go roam around looking at player vendors (hoping someone hadn't locked it down right, tee hee). People with lots of gold felt powerful in the game, I remember going mining for some chap, was paying me for every iron bar I went and mined for him. It was like a quest, but you were dealing with real people.

Even though it was basic combat, it felt really intense because you knew if you died, chances are that you were going to lose everything you were carrying. Safety in numbers, don't get too greedy. Soon as you found an awesome item, you were like.. "I need to get to the bank!" hehe.

Was just a great game, maybe I've got my rose-coloured glasses on, I enjoyed World of Warcraft loads as well. But I don't have the same memories about that game, it's just a blur of structured quests and dungeons. You never rarely experience anything outside of what the developer intended, where a game like Ultima Online, it just felt like that players had a huge influence on what was going on.

Anyhow, enough reminiscing, back to work!

Cheers.

[TRB]

The reason why MMOs seem stale is they haven't taken the next step in a technical sense.

None of the big budget MMOs, for example, have taken the idea of a deformable terrain and moved that to the next level.

WurmOnline has shown some of the possibilities of deformable terrain but it could go further in a good game engine [WO has a **** engine based on java].

a fully deformable terrain opens loads of game-play possibilities.

another example might be taking crafting to the next level by integrating a modern CAD package into a game and having players be able to make unique items from 3d models in the game. [its complicated but could be done]

There are lots of other things that could be done to move MMOs along on a technical level which could drastically change the options available for gameplay.


but hey what would I know, apparently you need 5-10 years xp and several degrees to have good ideas, according to most companies.



edit: yeah I really liked UO too

[Tas]

See for me, I enjoy the crafting in agmes. When I go into a game and see that crafted items usually at BEST average grade level items and all items never break. etc. it annoys me that the entire economy is taken away from the players. Take SWG for example.. or better yet EVE. You lose a fight, you lose your ship and it's gear... so you have to replace the lot. WoW, you die, you respawn with a gold bill.

If you want players to be incorporated.. this is a good starting point.

As for PvPers.. I find most MMO developers become slaves to this crowd. Everything constantly gets rebalanced just to help out these whiney retards.

Totally untrue. I have been a pvper since days of UO retail, an I am far from a whiny retard as you call us. Pve players on other hand, demand constantly that they be given everything everyone els has, or els they will sue!!.... it isn't fair that someone can do something they cant. Sadly this is the state to which MMO's have degraded in last 7 years. It really is quite sad to watch.

There is no community anymore, people dont log in to chat with friends an meet up to have fun, they log in an start spamming race hate an post child porn pics off 4chan etc etc. then they macro death to N.... etc an spam it constantly in hopes of pissing people off...The days of logging on in hopes of meeting people you might have made friends with, an going off to play for the day are dead an gone. If a session lasts more than an hour an you dont have several shinys to show for it then all hell breaks loose.

This is a "direct" result of making MMo's mainstream an attracting a younger player base, young = less attention span, so things have to be fast easy simple an shower you in shinys. I am not exaggerating here in any way it is a 100% perfect snapshot of MMO generation today.
Tera is a perfect example. The filth, race hate obnoxious an porn spam in game is exactly what I am talking aobut. coupled with the demands on forums by pve players who fill hundreds of posts with "or els" complaints in hopes of wearing dev's down is what we are reduced to.

[spawneh]

To me it seems there is never enough pvp players. So the people who do like to pvp complain they can't kill the "care bears." When this is really just that there is not enough people who like that play style to be self sufficient. PvP players always want more people to kill and pve players just want to be left alone.

Due to there being so many more pve players, its where you can satisfy more people at once, so its only logical most games are pve focused.

PVP players have also, always been the most vocal yet not the most numerous.

[Kinky Kel]

@Tas out of my entire post the only thing you commented on was the pvp player comment... interesting.

Not all pvpers are whiney retards. just 98% of them.
Now for your untrue comment, Take SWTOR for example. The game was supposed to be the ultimate story driven PvE experience with pvp being added in late development due to pressure from fans. Fine.. after reading the latest patch notes, so many of the skills have been dumbed down, modified, nerfed and downright deleted because the PVP crowd complained.. and complained.. and complained etc ad. nauseum. Now the pve player suffers with gimped skills.

So don't give me untrue.

[snex]

It sounds like you've barely played TERA.

[Village idiot]

The best times I had with mmo was on private UO servers. The people who ran the servers had the freedom to create and do whatever they wanted. It also basically involved the use of dungeon masters to create the gaming experience for other players.

Why are there absolutely 0 games that do this? Even a non mmo where one player can play the story teller. Or even more of the mix rts / fps genre games like Natural Selection please.

The problem with allowing people too much freedom is in most cases they are terrible at using it. The majority of people usually go for the most optimal route, especially when they are all placed in a competitive environment.

Couldn't agree more. My best MMO experiences were in private UO servers. A world created by someone with their rules, modeled of UO. Open PvP, crafting that mattered, real guilds with real guild wars where winner took all. Ahh the good times, my mates and i played that game so much we even made our own shard and spawned it from scratch - Added every item etc...

As said above, the fact that there were no quests, but always something to do. The odd GM run event or quest every now and then.

The endless PvP killing - and when i say that i mean that it was more akin to the game of thrones series than straight out "battlegrounds". Alliances made and broken, ticks and traps, double crossing whether it be for loot, coin ot just to be an ****.

The fact that the items you accumulated and wore mattered and you could lose them.

No vendors for armour other than the very basic - this is where crafters mattered - And they had to earn their own reputation. Entire grafting guilds were built on it.

No hand holding and no damn fetch x quests....

God i would give anything for UO in a modern setting.

[Tas]

@Tas out of my entire post the only thing you commented on was the pvp player comment... interesting.

Not all pvpers are whiney retards. just 98% of them.
Now for your untrue comment, Take SWTOR for example. The game was supposed to be the ultimate story driven PvE experience with pvp being added in late development due to pressure from fans. Fine.. after reading the latest patch notes, so many of the skills have been dumbed down, modified, nerfed and downright deleted because the PVP crowd complained.. and complained.. and complained etc ad. nauseum. Now the pve player suffers with gimped skills.

So don't give me untrue.

There has never been any pvp in swtor, an dont tell me that moronic sad excuse for a zone is "world pvp" its simply a farming instance ala battlegrounds.
Pve players were **** an moaning constantly that "griefers" were ruining their experience on what was "sposed" to be called a pvp server. So classes were nerfed because it just wasn't fair for a raider to get killed farming his quests.

Couple that with the non existent pvp for world players, an you have a game made for pve players from top down. yet you all complained that pvp servers were too "mean"

You know how many people I killed in the 2 months I played, 138+ ALL OF THEM in world play. Now ask me how much pvp experience or itemization I got from it.....

NIL!. Yet pve players farming BG's an exploiting Illum battleground were showered in shinys simply by showing up. Believe it or not, pvp is not about shinys, but when a company with zero MMO, experience serves up wow in space an has the gall to call it "pvp" it's insulting.
Notice how little population tor has, ever wonder why ?... because theres no pvp.

[Tas]

The best times I had with mmo was on private UO servers. The people who ran the servers had the freedom to create and do whatever they wanted. It also basically involved the use of dungeon masters to create the gaming experience for other players.

Why are there absolutely 0 games that do this? Even a non mmo where one player can play the story teller. Or even more of the mix rts / fps genre games like Natural Selection please.

The problem with allowing people too much freedom is in most cases they are terrible at using it. The majority of people usually go for the most optimal route, especially when they are all placed in a competitive environment.

Couldn't agree more. My best MMO experiences were in private UO servers. A world created by someone with their rules, modeled of UO. Open PvP, crafting that mattered, real guilds with real guild wars where winner took all. Ahh the good times, my mates and i played that game so much we even made our own shard and spawned it from scratch - Added every item etc...

As said above, the fact that there were no quests, but always something to do. The odd GM run event or quest every now and then.

The endless PvP killing - and when i say that i mean that it was more akin to the game of thrones series than straight out "battlegrounds". Alliances made and broken, ticks and traps, double crossing whether it be for loot, coin ot just to be an ****.

The fact that the items you accumulated and wore mattered and you could lose them.

No vendors for armour other than the very basic - this is where crafters mattered - And they had to earn their own reputation. Entire grafting guilds were built on it.

No hand holding and no damn fetch x quests....

God i would give anything for UO in a modern setting.

it's called EVE mate .

[Village idiot]

it's called EVE mate .

I know, i know. But im not a huge fan of the space setting and that game is so established now that i really don't feel like being the new guy with NFI getting his **** handed to him.

But i give hat game credit. It truly is a sandbox space version of UO.

Oh and when i said "modern setting" i didnt mean now or futuristic etc... I just meant UO updated for 2012

[DaJenko]

Hidden: show

@Tas out of my entire post the only thing you commented on was the pvp player comment... interesting.

Not all pvpers are whiney retards. just 98% of them.
Now for your untrue comment, Take SWTOR for example. The game was supposed to be the ultimate story driven PvE experience with pvp being added in late development due to pressure from fans. Fine.. after reading the latest patch notes, so many of the skills have been dumbed down, modified, nerfed and downright deleted because the PVP crowd complained.. and complained.. and complained etc ad. nauseum. Now the pve player suffers with gimped skills.

So don't give me untrue.

There has never been any pvp in swtor, an dont tell me that moronic sad excuse for a zone is "world pvp" its simply a farming instance ala battlegrounds.
Pve players were **** an moaning constantly that "griefers" were ruining their experience on what was "sposed" to be called a pvp server. So classes were nerfed because it just wasn't fair for a raider to get killed farming his quests.

Couple that with the non existent pvp for world players, an you have a game made for pve players from top down. yet you all complained that pvp servers were too "mean"

You know how many people I killed in the 2 months I played, 138+ ALL OF THEM in world play. Now ask me how much pvp experience or itemization I got from it.....

NIL!. Yet pve players farming BG's an exploiting Illum battleground were showered in shinys simply by showing up. Believe it or not, pvp is not about shinys, but when a company with zero MMO, experience serves up wow in space an has the gall to call it "pvp" it's insulting.
Notice how little population tor has, ever wonder why ?... because theres no pvp.

Your all whiners,

Imagine if developers tried to cater to a particular audience instead of all of them. I think thats the point of the article, there is a forumla being stuck to that sort of does everything, but none of it well, and different development teams have tried to tweak perfection out of it. The above angst is a result of trying to do it all.

[Freeride]

It sounds like you've barely played TERA.

This times 1 million, seeing you could only get to lvl 34 (or there abouts) and the top lvl is 60, the game is getting a huge update before it comes out to change quite alot and he hasnt experienced any endgame content, I think this rant is aimed at every other MMO he has played but for some reason chose Tera as the focus point because he played the Beta........Its a fkn beta ffs.....

Im not saying its going to reinvent the wheel but atleast its trying something different. He writes a huge post about how MMO's need to change then focuses on one that is one of the most different in a while. Its like noones ever heard of the term "baby steps".

Im not even a huge fan of Tera and I can see how Tera got the short end of the stick in this rant regardless of it being one of the most innovative of all the MMO's mentioned.

[James Pinnell]

It sounds like you've barely played TERA.

This times 1 million, seeing you could only get to lvl 34 (or there abouts) and the top lvl is 60, the game is getting a huge update before it comes out to change quite alot and he hasnt experienced any endgame content, I think this rant is aimed at every other MMO he has played but for some reason chose Tera as the focus point because he played the Beta........Its a fkn beta ffs.....

Im not saying its going to reinvent the wheel but atleast its trying something different. He writes a huge post about how MMO's need to change then focuses on one that is one of the most different in a while. Its like noones ever heard of the term "baby steps".

Im not even a huge fan of Tera and I can see how Tera got the short end of the stick in this rant regardless of it being one of the most innovative of all the MMO's mentioned.

I originally started writing this post as a preview of Tera but found that I would be writing the same preview I've written tens of times over the past few years. Like I wrote, Tera is a fine game, but it's no different to anything else I've played. I would certainly disagree that its "the most innovative" by a large mile however. Outside of the actually pretty decent combat system, how is it more innovative then its competitors?

In any case, I didn't say it was a review, nor even coverage of the beta - it was the catalyst, the straw that broke the camel's back, for an editorial on how the modern MMO is stuck in stasis and refuses to make fundamental changes to save itself from obscurity. Hell, I even wrote the words "baby steps" in the article and said that the industry has had more then enough time to change its skin. Take it as you will.

[Tas]

I dont see angst, what I see is burn out with the laziness an ineptitude of devs today in only wanting to cater to children an the infantile gibbish they call MMO's.

Before wow there were a few mechanics that made an MMO

1. Diversity HUGELY important
2. Community (there is none today)
3. pvp
4. imagination.

just to explain to what what these things mean

Take Dark age of Camelot
47 Classes each an every class original. No crossovers.
landscape was MASSIVE. Just one of the main pvp world areas was bigger than about 1/2 of wow.
Content in Daoc was key, world pvp was linked to pve, in massive bonuses, an itemization so there were dozens of different ways of gaining gear. But the game itself was not about gear because everyone had access to everything. There weas no such thing back then as pve an pvp gear...

Crafters made the best of everything. While dragon raids allowed for some visual fluff for those bored enough that they wanted to put themselves through the tedium of it.

Classes in Daoc were so powerful an so diverse it was a constant screaming match of demands for nerfs v buffs. 1 char called a Animist, was able to single handedly defend a relic keep against 200 players. Simply because of just how powerful he was.

Community in daoc was insane, no filth an race hate spammed constantly, no hate. People talked about.... shock horror... THE GAME... talked about what they got up to on weekend etc etc etc...

pvp, Daoc is rated as the top of the pile in pvp in MMO's because it was so ingrained so central to everything, The Devs took great pains to make it fun an interesting for all. None of this moronic farming Bg's for silly little shiny bauble ****. that was non existent.

imagination.

Animists, "shroom farmers", bombers, aoe dots... being able to use 20 pets at once...
Bonedancers, untouchable in pvp. Just one of them took 2-3-4 players tot ake him down.

In the end I could go on an on, but I cant be bothered... On other hand you have wow...

lol dont think there's anything els needs saying on the subject of how far MMO's fallen.

[Scrav]

I miss DAOC. It wasn't perfect by any means, but it did a lot of interesting stuff. I can't understand why everyone has to stick with the boring Team A vs Team B mini game mechanics.