The Walking Dead season 2

[$had0w]

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Shane was a douche... but to be honest... the dude that played him deserves some type of award because he was freaking fantastic! Im going to have to rewatch it all now to find out who Jenner was... i cant remember lol

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wasn't Jenner the scientist in the Biological Control place that blew up at end of season 1. I don't remember his whispering something into Rick's ear. Will be interesting to see what is revealed about new infection spread, probably not till next season though, i'm guessing end of this season will just be surviving the oncoming horde from end of this episode....which look soooooo cool!

btw, thought it was interesting the use of 'zombies eating' shots to show Shane transitioning into zombie, like they were eating his mind and that was turning him.
Guy who played Shane was awesome, didn't like character and that came down to the guy playing him very well. Hated character and yet when he comes up to Rick to tell him about the son and saying he needs his dad and Rick was prioritising mission over son, you couldn't help but agree with Shane. That is the sign of a well played out character, hate him but still agree with him and like him sometimes.

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I dont disagree with a single thing shane did... Seemed like the only character that'd be able to survive the zombie apoc. purely because he acts the way he does...

I dont see how anyone could truthfully disagree with anytinhg he's done...

[skitzor]

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I dont disagree with a single thing shane did... Seemed like the only character that'd be able to survive the zombie apoc. purely because he acts the way he does...

I dont see how anyone could truthfully disagree with anytinhg he's done...

tv spoilers.

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I would probably have to disagree with that.

The main reason I would disagree with his actions is the execution, but I would probably partly disagree with some of his actual actions. my main problem is his lack of discussion over it. he just goes around doing whatever the **** he thinks is right without talking to any one about it. he doesn't even try to talk about it. sure, some of the things he has done he wouldn't get consent, but he shouldn't go do it until after trying to talk it out.

shane turned rick into the person that killed shane. I doubt there would be anything shane could say (like discussing the barn problem) which would cause rick to kill him, so that wouldn't be an excuse for shane to not talk about it.

he is impulsive and arrogant. those are not good qualities in a leader or protector.

also, he doesn't have a very good grasp on the fact that there is more to their life than absolute survival. like dale said, what's the point in living if you lose everything that makes you human? shane didn't care about this sort of thing, so the decisions he made were lacking this part, which matters.

[Drakand]

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Yeah Skitzor, I agree, that is the point i was trying to make about Shane. He's operating on a kill or be killed approach which is one way of doing things but in terms of trying to retain some aspects of their lives before the infection started, that isn't the way to go about it.

I think it is just another compliment to all involved in the show that they've developed characters that have caused opposing support among viewers. It would be boring if everyone loved the same character.

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I'm wondering if Darryl and Carol are going to start up the Dale/Andrea love storyline ie older and younger person. Just the way Darryl is looking at her and with Tyreese not being part of TV show they may follow that option instead. As we've seen with Carl still being involved in Shane's death, they are trying to bring in aspects of comic but fitting with what they've started with tv show.

[Mekon]

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Agree with skitzor - Shane was a sociopath. Sure, it makes him more likely to survive, but also makes him a threat to everyone around him.

I honestly worry about people who empathise with him and feel he made the right choices (sacrificing others so he might live, unilateral decisions, paranoid, narcissistic, etc)...

As already mentioned, survival... but at what cost? And who the hell would trust him?

[$had0w]

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Agree with skitzor - Shane was a sociopath. Sure, it makes him more likely to survive, but also makes him a threat to everyone around him.

I honestly worry about people who empathise with him and feel he made the right choices (sacrificing others so he might live, unilateral decisions, paranoid, narcissistic, etc)...

As already mentioned, survival... but at what cost? And who the hell would trust him?

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if i had to choose between myself, and some obese farm guy i didnt know, i know what i'd certainly choose every time.'

as for the whole 'he didnt discuss what he was doing', well good. Theres far too much talking and not enough doing.

Sure he may be arrogant and impulsive, and that may not be good qualities in a leader but i dont see shane as a leader. He's what i expected daryl to be like (who i think is also an amazing character), just someone strong enough to get what needs to be done, done, without any of the guilt or negative feelings about it.

which tbh is what would be needed in such a situation..

[Disco LT]

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I think as the leader, Rick could take a few pointers from Shane, a sort of middle ground without being balls out psycho.

[skitzor]

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as for the whole 'he didnt discuss what he was doing', well good. Theres far too much talking and not enough doing.

Sure he may be arrogant and impulsive, and that may not be good qualities in a leader but i dont see shane as a leader. He's what i expected daryl to be like (who i think is also an amazing character), just someone strong enough to get what needs to be done, done, without any of the guilt or negative feelings about it.

which tbh is what would be needed in such a situation..

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we've sort of been through why he wasn't good to be around, you've just sort of said "nuh uh".

explain to us why being around shane is a good thing. all he cared about was lori and carl, and if you were anyone else he had no issues with killing you if HE thought it was the correct decision. it would only be a matter of time until he was so far gone that he would just kill someone for disagreeing with him. he forgot what it was like to be a member of a society, and like it or not, he was in a situation where he was apart of a society.

if you read my post, I said he could have at least tried to discuss it. I would be more forgiving if he tried to talk about it, and then just did it anyway. as it stood, he just did whatever he want with zero discussion.

explain to us why it's worth living in a world without some measure of society.

[Nekosan]

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I agree with you Skitz but one point peeps are kind of missing is that the most important part of the whole equation is "living", nothing else matters if you can't survive. I hate apocalyptic media where the characters are too "moral" to kill when it needs to be done (that's most books/movies), really what they should have done was interrogate that kid and then slit his throat and pierce his brain with something (screw wasting ammunition).

All through TWD that's one of the things that's somewhat ruined the realism (funny i know) of the story for me, sure there's a time for debate and trying to put civilization back together again but that time is AFTER the threats you you are resolved. I've just always found it odd that people could witness a zombie apocalypse and not come to understand more about the realistic nature of the world, dale and his "we can't just kill him" is right up there on the list of naive rubbish that would stop people from surviving.

I honestly think they would have benefited more as a group (in both the comic and the tv series) by forcing EVERYONE to go out scavenging etc rather than just making Glen do it and keeping everyone sheltered from the way the world really is, some of those survivors are TERRIFIED of a single walker and they're just a burden.

[skitzor]

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I agree with you Skitz but one point peeps are kind of missing is that the most important part of the whole equation is "living", nothing else matters if you can't survive. I hate apocalyptic media where the characters are too "moral" to kill when it needs to be done (that's most books/movies), really what they should have done was interrogate that kid and then slit his throat and pierce his brain with something (screw wasting ammunition).

All through TWD that's one of the things that's somewhat ruined the realism (funny i know) of the story for me, sure there's a time for debate and trying to put civilization back together again but that time is AFTER the threats you you are resolved. I've just always found it odd that people could witness a zombie apocalypse and not come to understand more about the realistic nature of the world, dale and his "we can't just kill him" is right up there on the list of naive rubbish that would stop people from surviving.

I honestly think they would have benefited more as a group (in both the comic and the tv series) by forcing EVERYONE to go out scavenging etc rather than just making Glen do it and keeping everyone sheltered from the way the world really is, some of those survivors are TERRIFIED of a single walker and they're just a burden.

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but why is just living such a big thing? if you feel horrible about yourself and life in general because you had to slaughter 5 of your closest friends just to stay alive, what's the point in living? wouldn't dying be better than living with that? moral apocalypses might be annoying to see, but they are an interesting look into the human psyche. you act like going around killing people you've known for months/years is easy. empathy,regret, guilt, etc is hard coded into people, it's not an easy thing to ignore.

don't get me wrong, people definitely need to change after a zombie apocalypse. but it's all about moderation. you can't act like nothings ever happened, but you can't just go full on survivor dick mode.

I'm glad there was someone like dale and shane around. they created moral problems. dale was absolutely correct when he was talking about how they were going to murder that guy just because of something he might do in the future. and shane was right to be so hostile towards him because of that thing he might do. they were both right, which is what makes things interesting. two choices that are completely opposed, but are both correct in their own ways.

they just killed off two of the extremes of the group. I wonder if others will fill the void (possibilities right now are sort of glen for dale and andrea for shane), or will they just leave it and have a bunch of moderates.

[AzraelTheCow]

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I'm glad there was someone like dale and shane around. they created moral problems. dale was absolutely correct when he was talking about how they were going to murder that guy just because of something he might do in the future. and shane was right to be so hostile towards him because of that thing he might do. they were both right, which is what makes things interesting. two choices that are completely opposed, but are both correct in their own ways.

This. That episode had me so conflicted, it was a proper moral dilemma. In general though I don't think operating in dick mode can work long term, we have in-built morality that coerces us to cooperate so that 'the group' (and all in it) are more successful than individuals. my 2c

[Nekosan]

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I'm glad there was someone like dale and shane around. they created moral problems. dale was absolutely correct when he was talking about how they were going to murder that guy just because of something he might do in the future. and shane was right to be so hostile towards him because of that thing he might do. they were both right, which is what makes things interesting. two choices that are completely opposed, but are both correct in their own ways.

This. That episode had me so conflicted, it was a proper moral dilemma. In general though I don't think operating in dick mode can work long term, we have in-built morality that coerces us to cooperate so that 'the group' (and all in it) are more successful than individuals. my 2c

There's a difference between "dick mode" and common sense though, that young guy had fired shots at them, he was part of a gang of rapists/murderers AND he knew Maggie from school so he knew where the farm was, the only common sense move is to kill him, any other option places the lives of your wife and kids in the hands of someone who already tried to kill you once. In my eyes the only thing they would have done wrong if they had just executed him was that they kept him alive and locked up in those circumstances for so long. If they didn't have the intention of interrogating him then the "non-dick mode" move would have just been to put a bullet in him while his leg was still stuck on the fence.

It would have been entirely different he he just been a lookout or something like that but he already showed he was happy to shoot at strangers. I think people with Dale's point of view there forget that the modern legal system requires a lot of support to work, in a subsistence living situation you can't feed a prisoner and you can't spare a man to guard a prisoner 24/7, punishments invariably fall into 3 categories, death, expulsion and a stern talking to. Anything else is impossible.

What surprised me the most was that they all seemed so horrified at the thought of giving him a quick, clean death but nobody really batted an eyelid when they let Daryl go to town on him, Dale's lack of understanding in the way the world had changed was rather evident and in the end it's what got him killed, he just couldn't adjust to the new world.

[$had0w]

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I agree with you Skitz but one point peeps are kind of missing is that the most important part of the whole equation is "living", nothing else matters if you can't survive. I hate apocalyptic media where the characters are too "moral" to kill when it needs to be done (that's most books/movies), really what they should have done was interrogate that kid and then slit his throat and pierce his brain with something (screw wasting ammunition).

All through TWD that's one of the things that's somewhat ruined the realism (funny i know) of the story for me, sure there's a time for debate and trying to put civilization back together again but that time is AFTER the threats you you are resolved. I've just always found it odd that people could witness a zombie apocalypse and not come to understand more about the realistic nature of the world, dale and his "we can't just kill him" is right up there on the list of naive rubbish that would stop people from surviving.

I honestly think they would have benefited more as a group (in both the comic and the tv series) by forcing EVERYONE to go out scavenging etc rather than just making Glen do it and keeping everyone sheltered from the way the world really is, some of those survivors are TERRIFIED of a single walker and they're just a burden.

tv spoilers

Hidden: show

but why is just living such a big thing? if you feel horrible about yourself and life in general because you had to slaughter 5 of your closest friends just to stay alive, what's the point in living? wouldn't dying be better than living with that? moral apocalypses might be annoying to see, but they are an interesting look into the human psyche. you act like going around killing people you've known for months/years is easy. empathy,regret, guilt, etc is hard coded into people, it's not an easy thing to ignore.

don't get me wrong, people definitely need to change after a zombie apocalypse. but it's all about moderation. you can't act like nothings ever happened, but you can't just go full on survivor dick mode.

I'm glad there was someone like dale and shane around. they created moral problems. dale was absolutely correct when he was talking about how they were going to murder that guy just because of something he might do in the future. and shane was right to be so hostile towards him because of that thing he might do. they were both right, which is what makes things interesting. two choices that are completely opposed, but are both correct in their own ways.

they just killed off two of the extremes of the group. I wonder if others will fill the void (possibilities right now are sort of glen for dale and andrea for shane), or will they just leave it and have a bunch of moderates.

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haha oh god, you've no idea how ep11 had me not wanting to watch the show because it seemed like they were all just losing it. I loved the moral problem of dale, and in this case theres no right or wrong because its all just opinion there.

But personally i'd not feel horrible if i had to do anything like that, and it would be easy for me, as i hope it'd be easy for my friends to do the same were the situation reversed. guilt & regret are pointless emotions...

[jmcev]

spoken like a true psychopath.

[Nekosan]

spoken like a true psychopath.

Spoken like a true prey animal.

[skitzor]

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But personally i'd not feel horrible if i had to do anything like that, and it would be easy for me, as i hope it'd be easy for my friends to do the same were the situation reversed. guilt & regret are pointless emotions...

Spoken like a true prey animal.

tv spoilers.

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you would have no idea how you would be able to act in that circumstance. you would be messing with some extremely powerful emotions. you might be able to do it, but living with yourself would be another problem. you saw shane after otis. some people might end up just killing themselves after something like that.

what you guys seem to be forgetting is why people have things like empathy, guilt and regret. at one point in our evolution they were deemed advantageous for survival, so they were propagated through the generations. if you think it's a good idea for everyone to just stop displaying those types of emotions, you are ignoring millions of years of survival.

once again, I'm not saying you need to be some ultra nice person, but you can't have a group of people all like shane. you need people like rick that can moderate their feelings either way.