Game of Thrones Season 2

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 2

Unread postby $had0w » 3 Apr 12, 4:28 pm

Auld wrote:@shadow
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The Maester tries to poison Mellisandre, not Stannis' wife. Its fairly early on in the book iirc.
Its not a village, its Craster's house. They explained in the conversation they had passed 6 villages and they were all empty.


I think everyone is freaking out with out much thought. How you introduce characters in a book is different to how you do it in a series. They are clearly trying to keep some mystery around the new characters, I believe you'll see them fleshed out later. Explaining every little detail of every character in the first episode would have been boring as ****.

Some sub plots had to be cut, some things needed to be simplified. I don't think they've skipped anything important yet.


I'm up to page 350 of the book, and i dont think craster's house has happened yet... which surprises me that they put it in the show considering i'm 1/3 of the way through the book and not even heard of it, and its in the first episode?

as for 'book fanbois', no... I just think its a terrible idea showing us a bunch of characters and not even telling us their names or what relationship they have with the main characters.
We already knew who the older characters were, why not spend less time on them and more on the new ones to introduce us to who they are? Did we really need to see bran's dream? That could have gone into explaining stannis etc...
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 2

Unread postby cdkit3 » 3 Apr 12, 5:52 pm

Maybe everyone complaining about them skipping stuff should take a big breath, and wait and see what happens in the rest of the series... Its the start of a new season, of course they are going to try to initially introduce the characters, and then build them into what you expect from the book.

Unfortunately you can't have a character introduce themselves in a TV show like you can in a book.

One thing that the books does, is introduce nothing characters in the first chapter to setup some of the other characters, you can't exactly do that to the same level in TV shows, or else you would probably have people complaining about why did you spend 5 minutes of screen time introducing this person just to kill them off right away.

EG (TV Show)

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What they did with Stannis' Maester, except if it was like the book, it would have shown him, shown him poisoning Melisandre, and then dying, when there is absolutely no basis for that action as you have no idea who she is. Atleast with the way they went in the show, you know that she is someone who has come in with a new god, and is getting rid of the old. That is why he wants to kill her.


As for missing a lot of things, I agree with Neko in one regard, the bits that they go to the effort of putting in, I think they should keep faithful. The bits that they miss, there are times where putting the parts in would over load the show.

I do also admit that there are parts that would have been nice.

EG. (Book vs TV show)

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How they had Tyrion just get trampled and knocked out before the battle in S1 instead of having him take part like he did in the book, and build his character into what it became in the book. Rather than Tywin just sending him off to kings landing. At least after his battle, you could believe that Tywin sent Tyrion because he proved himself in the battle.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 2

Unread postby $had0w » 3 Apr 12, 6:08 pm

Im just viewing this as someone that hasnt read the book fully yet, and how confusing it'll be to someone that hasnt even started reading it.

Book vs tv
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They could have spent a few minutes tellig us who melisandre is, and why the maester wanted her dead. It wasnt because of her worshipping a different god, but because she was leading stannis to do things that the maester thought was wrong.
The killing babies part... That should have been saved to a later episode or at least told us why they were doing it (again, those of us that have read that part in the books know why), and even in the book its only like a paragraph long (i think its tyrion that says something about the gold cloaks commander being unfit to lead because he'll willingly kill infants, or something, in a conversation with varys?)
I'd personally have rather seen the conversation between varys and tyrion than a random baby killing scene
Again, Craster's keep... I only just started reading the paragraph its on. Page 355 out of 950 pages, and its in the first episode? Use that time to explain the new characters and show it later, like it is in the book, no need to rush it THAT much..


I'm not a book fanboy, i loved the first season enough to actually go out and buy the books, and imo the first season was done very well compared to the books, but this first ep is just disappointing in the lack of content and how rushed it seems.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 2

Unread postby cdkit3 » 3 Apr 12, 10:52 pm

Spoilerish, but the joke is more than worth it ;)

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 2

Unread postby Nekosan » 3 Apr 12, 11:06 pm

$had0w wrote:
I'm up to page 350 of the book, and i dont think craster's house has happened yet... which surprises me that they put it in the show considering i'm 1/3 of the way through the book and not even heard of it, and its in the first episode?


The reason it's worked out like that is because the books chapters are staggered strangely, sometimes you read one character for a month and then it snaps back to a different character and what happened to them during the same period, that's why a lot of people didn't like the last book, the first half of it takes place at the same time as the entire previous book did (and it even shares a few chapters that we've already read, just from Sam's perspective instead of Jon's).

The timing for events has been spot on so far, if that aspect followed the books more then it's entirely possible we wouldn't see some characters for a season or two and none of it would make sense.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 2

Unread postby skitzor » 3 Apr 12, 11:33 pm

Auld wrote:This makes me sad, the books are a fantastic accompaniment to the series.

Their scope is humongous, I put the whinging down to a lack of thought into what is actually important to the overall story. Its the first episode, give them time to expand on the new characters.

I still think reading the book and "spoiling" it is worthwhile.

I'm not saying I will never read them, I just don't think I'll risk reading them before the TV series finishes.

the majority of people who have read the GoT books haven't liked parts of the TV series because of what they miss/change. instead of thinking THIS IS AWESOME for the whole episode (which is what I do), they are thinking about the differences.

same goes for The Walking Dead. most people who have read the graphic novel complain about the differences. I wouldn't say it's a perfect series, but I'm sure I'm enjoying it more than most of the people who have read the graphic novels.

and I'm one of those people that went through the Harry Potter movies being annoyed at the stuff they missed and changed. people can't help it, and I totally get it.

I honestly think the best way to go is TV/movie then books, then TV/movie again. it worked really well for Generation Kill, and it just feels like the best option.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 2

Unread postby discobrad » 4 Apr 12, 1:06 am

i feel exactly the same way skitzor, for both game of thrones and walking dead - did the same for Harry potter too. the only instance i didnt have that issue with was lord of the rings, had read the books but the movies really did them justice IMO
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 2

Unread postby Nekosan » 4 Apr 12, 2:08 am

discobrad wrote:i feel exactly the same way skitzor, for both game of thrones and walking dead - did the same for Harry potter too. the only instance i didnt have that issue with was lord of the rings, had read the books but the movies really did them justice IMO


I might **** a lot in the TWD and GoT threads but i really do spend every episode on the edge of my seat saying "THIS IS AWESOOOOOOOOOOME", my inner fanboy won't let it be any other way. The shows being awesome though, doesn't mean they couldn't be MORE awesome.

I was a little strange with LOTR, I read The Hobbit as a child and enjoyed it but then moved on to other science fiction/fantasy and never read LOTR, when the movies were coming out I bought them to read and was sorely disappointed. Tolkien doesn't really do it for me for some reason, there's just something about his style of writing that annoys me, though maybe I also just matured beyond being able to stand elves and that kind of thing, every time someone mentions that Salvatore hack i want to slap them.

Had a hardon for the duration of all 3 movies though, IMO they set a new production standard for AAA movies in a time when Hollywood was getting lazy and stagnant, even total randoms who hate all things fantasy have to appreciate those movies for how well they were put together.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 2

Unread postby Tera » 4 Apr 12, 3:20 am

The thing that ruined it for me reading the LoTR books (when I was 15) was just the oversaturate of history. Like, don't get me wrong, Space Opera is my thing, I love a long - epic story. But the constant history lesson of Blah blah, son of blah - uncle of blah, house pet of blah just got way too much.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 2

Unread postby Nekosan » 4 Apr 12, 4:17 am

Tera wrote:The thing that ruined it for me reading the LoTR books (when I was 15) was just the oversaturate of history. Like, don't get me wrong, Space Opera is my thing, I love a long - epic story. But the constant history lesson of Blah blah, son of blah - uncle of blah, house pet of blah just got way too much.


I just feel like Tolkien wanted demonstrate his literary skills rather than write a good story, the whole thing was a bit too much "oooh I own a dictionary" and not enough good old storytelling, by recent standards it's just too overdone. I also never felt any real empathy for any of the characters (which is often a big part of enjoying a story), you have to be deeply invested in a character or two after half a book (even if you just want them to die) or it just isn't worth it IMO.

The whole LOTR series (the novels) almost feels like a parody of fantasy to me these days.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 2

Unread postby $had0w » 4 Apr 12, 5:53 am

Nekosan wrote:
discobrad wrote:every time someone mentions that Salvatore hack i want to slap them.


wtf. Salvatore is one of the best fantasy authors there is...
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 2

Unread postby Auld » 4 Apr 12, 7:05 am

The Producers etc. did such a good job with Season 1 of GoT's every episode I see I think "this is awesome". Sure they don't get everything 100%, but **** they do an amazing job.

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complaining about craster's keep is a little silly, what would several minutes of searching empty villages in the snow have achieved? the same goes for ser dontos' shaming, it didn't need to be in a muddy field. Both parts are adequately explained IMO.


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I tend to agree with Mellisandre in the first ep, but as they have done such a good job so far I simply expect this will be elaborated in future episodes


I think if you remember that the TV series is an interpretation of the books, not a literal line by line production, you can chill out and enjoy it for what it is.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 2

Unread postby Sathias » 4 Apr 12, 7:24 am

skitzor wrote:
Auld wrote:This makes me sad, the books are a fantastic accompaniment to the series.

Their scope is humongous, I put the whinging down to a lack of thought into what is actually important to the overall story. Its the first episode, give them time to expand on the new characters.

I still think reading the book and "spoiling" it is worthwhile.

I'm not saying I will never read them, I just don't think I'll risk reading them before the TV series finishes.

the majority of people who have read the GoT books haven't liked parts of the TV series because of what they miss/change. instead of thinking THIS IS AWESOME for the whole episode (which is what I do), they are thinking about the differences.

same goes for The Walking Dead. most people who have read the graphic novel complain about the differences. I wouldn't say it's a perfect series, but I'm sure I'm enjoying it more than most of the people who have read the graphic novels.

and I'm one of those people that went through the Harry Potter movies being annoyed at the stuff they missed and changed. people can't help it, and I totally get it.

I honestly think the best way to go is TV/movie then books, then TV/movie again. it worked really well for Generation Kill, and it just feels like the best option.


Yeah you have nailed my thoughts on this topic as well. I am planning to read both the Game of Thrones books and Walking Dead comics but I am going to wait until the TV shows both finish.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 2

Unread postby sifter132 » 4 Apr 12, 7:36 am

discobrad wrote:i feel exactly the same way skitzor, for both game of thrones and walking dead - did the same for Harry potter too. the only instance i didnt have that issue with was lord of the rings, had read the books but the movies really did them justice IMO


And yet things got changed from book-to-movie in LOTR too.

I've been watching the LOTR commentaries recently, and Peter J and the other writers specifically mentioned how hard it is too introduce a lot of characters in a short space - which is exactly the problem with this current season of GoT. So when the Fellowship gets to Rivendell for example, they had to introduce Elrond, Legolas, Gimli, Boromir, Arwen etc. so the character of Glorfindel who actually rescues Frodo from his Weathertop wounds in the book, gets cut out and becomes Arwen to cut down on introductions and enhance Arwen's character.

That's why I agree with those who say wait and see how the writers are going to get around that 'multiple introductions' problem before bagging the current season. Maybe they'll botch it, but maybe their plan will payoff. Too early to say.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 2

Unread postby nudge » 4 Apr 12, 9:04 am

Auld wrote:Nudge: book 2 is being covered by seasons 2 and 3 so they wont catch up too fast.

Do you not like the series cause he takes so long to write them.....or because they arent any good?


The books are only OK, there are much better stories out there, that are completed or being released in a timely manner. You will forget what has happened if he takes 5 years to write the next one. He is 70 I think so there are concerns he won't ever finish the series.
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