Can the servers use sv_pure? Lets get rid of some cheaters!

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Should sv_pure be turned on?

Yes
42
81%
No
10
19%
 
Total votes : 52

Re: Can the servers use sv_pure? Lets get rid of some cheate

Unread postby frozenbread » 31 Dec 11, 5:15 pm

The only advantge you could get with dodgy weapon skins is quite minimal, and doesn't give you a real advantage. You could get say, transparent or invisible weapon and hand skins. You'll have a lot more vision of the floor, but in reality, pretty much no advantage.

And it goes the same with player skins. The worst you could do is have bright one-colour skins for each team. It makes player(distinguish CT from T) identification easier, but doesn't really give you an advantage, as the skins are still bound by lighting physics. Bright colour skins cannot be tweaked to appear through walls, and are nothing like a cham hack.
eg. a CT camping in a dark corner will still be just as hidden whether its the classic or bright colour skin, as there still illuminated with the exact same amount of light.

Custom skins don't allow you to run anything malicious, you can't run special options or settings that will do something amazing, it's pretty much just fiddling with colours.

The wall hack that I've been referring to is nothing more than taking the original texture files, and changing the opacity to basically nothing.

I would also rather have an ironclad sv_pure 2 setup, then no sv_pure at all.
But blocking rather harmless player/weapon skins, its up to you.
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Re: Can the servers use sv_pure? Lets get rid of some cheate

Unread postby stingtwo » 31 Dec 11, 6:44 pm

frozenbread wrote:Only allowing authentic wall textures will remove the option for someone to easily and legitimately wallhack. Then if they still want to cheat, they can use an actual hack and hopefully VAC catches on for a nice permaban.

Sorry if i've read your post wrong, but to us, it doesn't matter if your using a 3rd party hack or a wireframe texture to see players where/when you shouldn't, you will be treated the same(a cheat and as such banned from our servers)
And it goes the same with player skins. The worst you could do is have bright one-colour skins for each team. It makes player(distinguish CT from T) identification easier, but doesn't really give you an advantage, as the skins are still bound by lighting physics. Bright colour skins cannot be tweaked to appear through walls, and are nothing like a cham hack.
eg. a CT camping in a dark corner will still be just as hidden whether its the classic or bright colour skin, as there still illuminated with the exact same amount of light.
actually in a few cases, solid skins can be seen in really dark rooms/areas without problems
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Re: Can the servers use sv_pure? Lets get rid of some cheate

Unread postby Kenz.. » 31 Dec 11, 6:58 pm

Yeah sting is right ^

Still nothing has convinced me otherwise to change the command at all. :!:
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Re: Can the servers use sv_pure? Lets get rid of some cheate

Unread postby Chucky » 31 Dec 11, 7:07 pm

Cozi wrote:So I will leave this up to everyone. If the majority want it turned on I am more than happy to make the change across all CSS servers.


It is great to see the decision actually lies with the Senior CS/CSS Admin (after input from the community), things have obviously changed since my day in the sun as Senior BF Admin.

Anyway moving on from that, I get the feeling no matter what you do now Cozi you are going to have a **** load of players complaining one way or the other. I say that as if you go SV Pure now, when it is turned on I get the feeling you will then have a majority of people signing up and complaining. If you then turn it back off, you will then have everyone that is voting to turn it on complaining.

I think you have one way around this after the poll changes the servers to SV pure and that is once you have SV pure running and if you do get a whole bunch of complaints about it run another poll. That poll then makes up the majority of servers (lets say 75%). That way you can still cater to the minority that want it their way, but the majority are covered as well.

Anyway, food for thought...It would then be as simple as adding SV Pure to title of the ones that have it turned on.
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Re: Can the servers use sv_pure? Lets get rid of some cheate

Unread postby Cozi » 1 Jan 12, 4:59 am

fimmwolf wrote:
Cozi wrote:If sv_pure gets enabled its going to enforce all defaults skins/models.


Then stop trying to please those that cry the loudest when they can't cheat.

Enable it already.


Well no I am not pleasing those who cry the loudest at all. Regardless of my opinion on the topic, why should we let hackers ruin it for the people that are actually legitimately changing skins for fun and enjoy a different look?

frozenbread wrote:And it goes the same with player skins. The worst you could do is have bright one-colour skins for each team.


There are some bad ones out there and they clearly give an advantage over a normal skin hence why they are not aloud. Turning on sv_pure will stop those people from using them.

Chucky wrote:
Cozi wrote:So I will leave this up to everyone. If the majority want it turned on I am more than happy to make the change across all CSS servers.


It is great to see the decision actually lies with the Senior CS/CSS Admin (after input from the community), things have obviously changed since my day in the sun as Senior BF Admin.


Hrmmm not too sure about other games but I have always felt that GON has been acceptable to changes if there is a clear benefit or demand from the community. While ultimately yes I could just go and switch it on to all servers now, I like to think the community make the decisions and not me which is the reason for this thread ;)

Chucky wrote:Anyway moving on from that, I get the feeling no matter what you do now Cozi you are going to have a **** load of players complaining one way or the other.


Think of it as constructive criticism :P (depending on how well they type it up lol). This is not new and is something that I will always have to deal with, I am sure you are well aware of that :)

Chucky wrote:I say that as if you go SV Pure now, when it is turned on I get the feeling you will then have a majority of people signing up and complaining.


End of the day we cannot keep everyone happy. I will try my best to accommodate everyone with the best possible solution.

Chucky wrote: If you then turn it back off, you will then have everyone that is voting to turn it on complaining.


If that happens then the simple response that I will give everyone is to help us remove these players that are cheating by demoing/submitting. If you are using material hacks its just a clear as with a 3rd party program. If people want to sit there and complain they are more than welcome to but if they are not prepared to help the rest of the community why should they have an input in the first place?
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Re: Can the servers use sv_pure? Lets get rid of some cheate

Unread postby Kenz.. » 1 Jan 12, 8:34 am

The GON community is strong and if people don't put there input in now and complain later don't listen, I know I won't be!
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Re: Can the servers use sv_pure? Lets get rid of some cheate

Unread postby fimmwolf » 2 Jan 12, 12:34 pm

Regardless of my opinion on the topic, why should we let hackers ruin it for the people that are actually legitimately changing skins for fun and enjoy a different look?


fair enough.

The choice seems simple enough:
allow customization and therefore allow players to exploit the fact that sv_pure isn't turned on.

or make everyone use default, which reduces the number of people cheating.


Now we regularly see people with scores in the mid 30's with only 3 or 4 deaths.

86% of the poll respondents want you to get rid of the cheaters

It seems to me that you are taking side with the minority in this instance.

Do you like your skins that much ?
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Re: Can the servers use sv_pure? Lets get rid of some cheate

Unread postby Kenz.. » 2 Jan 12, 12:42 pm

fimmwolf wrote:
Regardless of my opinion on the topic, why should we let hackers ruin it for the people that are actually legitimately changing skins for fun and enjoy a different look?


fair enough.

The choice seems simple enough:
allow customization and therefore allow players to exploit the fact that sv_pure isn't turned on.

or make everyone use default, which reduces the number of people cheating.


Now we regularly see people with scores in the mid 30's with only 3 or 4 deaths.

86% of the poll respondents want you to get rid of the cheaters

It seems to me that you are taking side with the minority in this instance.

Do you like your skins that much ?


I can't even to begin to imagine that the most common hack is a model hack?

I can guarantee that regardless if you turn sv_pure off your still going to have people in the mid 30's with 3 or 4 deaths. Changing sv_pure won't change that.

I don't think cozi has taken the minority side as he put a poll up and let be up for discussion at the end of the day when the poll finishes and if it stays like this sv_Pure will be turned on.
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Re: Can the servers use sv_pure? Lets get rid of some cheate

Unread postby Cozi » 2 Jan 12, 12:47 pm

fimmwolf wrote:It seems to me that you are taking side with the minority in this instance.

Do you like your skins that much ?


You have it all wrong... I am for sv_pure not against it :wink: I am trying to explain both sides with an unbiased view.

I am giving it a bit of a trial run on one of the busiest servers and we will see how we go.
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Re: Can the servers use sv_pure? Lets get rid of some cheate

Unread postby fml.Exterminator » 2 Jan 12, 3:33 pm

I dont even know how to change it anyway :P I would have thought maybe put it on all the servers except 7 lol at end of day long as it does not lag the system anymore than what it already is as i dont think it can handle must more!! people being able to have their own skins will use a lot more bandwidth and soon will have higher than normal pings!

I think before this goes ahead a few things firstly need to be looked at as in, seeing if someone can try and fix the stupid mini map!! im sick of seeing cts as T's and green dots and black dots !! WHAT!!! also the servers need to be looked at server 7 suffers the most for bad lag and crashes all the time i think they need to be looked at first prior to anything else being tested!!
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Re: Can the servers use sv_pure? Lets get rid of some cheate

Unread postby Cozi » 2 Jan 12, 3:53 pm

KillGamers wrote:I think before this goes ahead a few things firstly need to be looked at as in, seeing if someone can try and fix the stupid mini map!! im sick of seeing cts as T's and green dots and black dots !! WHAT!!!


Minimap is valve's issue not ours.

KillGamers wrote:also the servers need to be looked at server 7 suffers the most for bad lag and crashes all the time i think they need to be looked at first prior to anything else being tested!!


Server has been down once in the last 10-12 days - This I am keeping an eye on.
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Re: Can the servers use sv_pure? Lets get rid of some cheate

Unread postby fimmwolf » 2 Jan 12, 3:56 pm

You have it all wrong... I am for sv_pure not against it :wink:


my bad
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Re: Can the servers use sv_pure? Lets get rid of some cheate

Unread postby fml.Exterminator » 2 Jan 12, 8:38 pm

Minimap is valve's issue not ours.


do they know about it??
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Re: Can the servers use sv_pure? Lets get rid of some cheate

Unread postby Cozi » 2 Jan 12, 8:40 pm

KillGamers wrote:
Minimap is valve's issue not ours.


do they know about it??


Yep it is listed in the bug report thread on the steam forums.
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Re: Can the servers use sv_pure? Lets get rid of some cheate

Unread postby Kenz.. » 2 Jan 12, 8:40 pm

I dare say so, Do they care, I doubt it :P
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