DayZ creator Dean Hall: “If DICE wanted to kill ArmA, all they’d need to do is release some modding tools”

dayz

By on September 6, 2013 at 5:23 pm

It’s no surprise that DayZ creator Dean “Rocket” Hall is a big fan of modding, but did come as a surprise to see just how much he attributed the success of ArmA and subsequently DayZ to the practice.

Speaking at PAX Prime last weekend, Hall said that it “If DICE wanted to kill Arma, all they’d need to do is release some modding tools tomorrow. Psh, gone.”

“It always really hurt me when Battlefield 2 was the end in terms of modding, so I’m pretty obviously supportive of the whole modding idea.”

Hall explained that striking that balance between security and stability and modding is something constantly on his mind.

“That’s the challenge that we’re trying to deal with with DayZ at the moment. How do we have the stability and security of an online community like Wargaming has, at the same time as support modding? I don’t have the answer for that.”

You can see a recording of the whole discussion over at PC Gamer.

Source: PC Gamer

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23 comments (Leave your own)

This is a man who does not understand the differences in markets these 2 products appeal 2 ARMA is a PC master race game always has been battlefield is an accessible console game battlefield would never effect the arma market and vice versa.

Also didn’t he outright say “dayz won’t allow mod support” maybe if he could make up his mind he could stop talking about irrelevant things and actually get a product shipped.

 
advice.dawgg

Yeah open up the frostbite engine in bf4!
I always thought that mod-able games are a boon to sales once they spawn popular mods. Right?

 

can’t mess with the DLC schedule

/sigh

 

BF3 may not of had modding tools but at least it wasn’t over run with hackers……….Ohhhhhh, wait, that’s right.

 

spooler:
This is a man who does not understand the differences in markets these 2 products appeal 2 ARMA is a PC master race game always hasbeen battlefield is an accessible console game battlefield would never effect the arma market and vice versa.

Also didn’t he outright say “dayz won’t allow mod support” maybe if he could make up his mind he could stop talking about irrelevant things and actually get a product shipped.

He’s not saying modding tools allow ARMA to compete head on with the likes of BF, He is saying that if BF games still included modding tools then games like ARMA would be squeezed out of the market. Which is fair enough, game like ARMA are occupying a niche left open by big publishers not allowing modding.

 

spooler,

So I guess mods like Project Reality don’t exist, nor does Battlefield on PC? Just because BF is also on console it doesn’t make it a “different market”. The whole point of modding is to create something out of something else, which is exactly how Project Reality (something that plays much more like ArmA than Battlefield) came to exist.

EDIT – It makes me fucking laugh how much some people go down the Tall Poppy Syndrome path between Notch and Dean Hall.

 

Meh, don’t really care what Hall has to say regarding games, not unless he decides to start commenting on someone else squandering chances, then he’s qualified.

Pretty sick of being bullshitted by devs like him, I love Arma etc but it continually blows my mind how much Bohemia get away with, they’re one of the slackest, most amateur companies still in business.

 

nekosan:
Meh, don’t really care what Hall has to say regarding games, not unless he decides to start commenting on someone else squandering chances, then he’s qualified.

Pretty sick of being bullshitted by devs like him, I love Arma etc but it continually blows my mind how much Bohemia get away with, they’re one of the slackest, most amateur companies still in business.

Yes! Very true! I love Arma but can see so many bugs that would be so easy to fix unless their codebase is horrendous which I assume it is. I’m a programmer and fix bugs every day like everyone else and things like moving and changing weapons being a bug included in release (I don’t see them fixing it in the coming days because why haven’t they since Arma 2?) is just pathetic. They are lucky they have no competition. Everywhere else they have animation blending, action blending etc. But when it comes to one of the most important actions in the game, changing weapons, you have to stop. Slowly change and then execute the commands (walking for example) you were in the middle of. Then you have the horrible action menu. Oh and a site that is from the 90′s. It literally gives me a headache to read their dev tracker or whatever they call it.
But they are in a similar situation to facebook. If facebook has a bug (and it has a lot) people deal with it and keep using it. Same with Arma, we learn to live with the bugs. And I’m fine with that and hope that they do fix some of the massive issues over time.

Oh and their client server code is among the worst I have ever experienced (which is why there are so many hackers etc).

Then we are days before release and I can’t get more than an hour without a crash.

Well this is my one and only rant on this lol. I am still heavily addicted to this game and can’t even play anything new because of it. I play a new “AAA” game for 10 minutes before going back to Arma. And since playing it haven’t touched BF3 once. So my rant is more because I love Arma and just wish they hired a single senior programmer who knows their shit and could direct the rest of the team to stop the crap. Their code base must be really bad, stuff like items from inventory dissapearing when moving slots is a clear indication of terrible code.

And Hall is as bad as notch, a bad programmer with a good idea. But good on them, ideas are worth more and what they have done helps push the industry in the indie/kickstarter/modding direction which is just plain better.

 

spooler:
This is a man who does not understand the differences in markets these 2 products appeal 2 ARMA is a PC master race game always hasbeen battlefield is an accessible console game battlefield would never effect the arma market and vice versa.

He means that modding tools allow people to create mods that can compete with arma.

 

schrapple,

mearehear,

matty,

“If DICE wanted to kill Arma” If dice had any interest in that market at all, why would dice care about satisfying a market they clearly care very little about ?

Here’s the thing DICE want to offer a streamlined online service that they are in control of. Modding detracts form that.

If realism mods for battlefield would squeeze ARMA out of the market how come ARMA 2 was such a success ?(pre-day-z) Battlefield with mod tools had been around for some time then.

Don’t get me wrong I like user content as much as the next man but this kind of statement shows an ignorance of what the goals of developers actually are.

nekosan:
Meh, don’t really care what Hall has to say regarding games, not unless he decides to start commenting on someone else squandering chances, then he’s qualified.

Pretty sick of being bullshitted by devs like him, I love Arma etc but it continually blows my mind how much Bohemia get away with, they’re one of the slackest, most amateur companies still in business.

+1 there’s this really stupid culture especially prevalent among PC gamers that certain developers can do no wrong.

 

spooler,

I’m not sure what he is being ignorant of specifically? What is the claim he is making about developers and/or their goals?

Seems to me that he is making the claim that if people could mod BF they would do that instead of modding ARMA, and that without the modding and modding community that ARMA has it wouldn’t survive long term. All of which seems pretty responsible and benign to me.

 

schrapple,

battlefield 2 release 2006, arma release 2009

assume genre is the effecting thing here clearly it’s not that as you could mod all you like if the genre was what you cared about.

If it’s engine you want to mod the 2 engines are nothing alike and there’s hundreds of other engines out there you can mod.

arma had been around long before day z which is really the only mod that had an impact on arma’s revenue it’s a false statement to make that modding is super dooper important.

Again I love it too (user-content) but it’s a miss leading statement.

 

spooler,

I guess the big hypothetical question is “what would ARMA3 of looked like without the day-z mod revenue coming in (and I mean long term too, not just the release product)?”

Is the mod revenue super dooper important? it may not seem so immediately but companies that design things go into spirals, more income equals more R&D of the next product which equals a better product. Conversely less income equals less R&D which means lower quality product and so the spiral continues down.

 

schrapple,

the bigger question do you really think modding would have any impact on the AAA industry we’re talking about an industry that has a hissy fit if first month sales don’t meet expectations.

 

OFP/ArmA survived through the period when it was an obscure niche and whilst Battlefield mods were popular. Also despite the remarkable efforts of Battlefield modders, the game engines of each series are very different beasts.

spooler:
battlefield 2 release 2006

Battlefield 2 was released in 2005, BF 2142 in 2006.

spooler:
If realism mods for battlefield would squeeze ARMA out of the market how come ARMA 2 was such a success ?(pre-day-z) Battlefield with mod tools had been around for some time then.

I bought ArmA 2 when it first came out but I wouldn’t have said it was a particularly successful launch, it was still about as clunky and unknown as Bohemia’s previous titles.

Additionally, before Arma 2 Free and DayZ came out I found it hard to find a well populated ArmA 2 server (esp. one that wasn’t COOP). Whereas at the time BF2:Project Reality had a 64 player Australian server (BigD) that would fill up every night.

 

spooler,

Rockets statement wasn’t about what modding would do to the sales of AAA titles and/or whether or not big developers should chase modding communities. It was a statement say that if Dice wanted to they could sink ARMA by releasing modding tools, which infers that modding is what keeps ARMA going, Since he is an insider at B.I. I’m inclined to accept that his opinion carries some weight on the matter.

 

schrapple,

Then why would dice care ? And there’s no supporting evidence for the fact that mod tools for battlefield would make any difference at all people would still mod ARMA just as they did when A2 first came out.

schrapple: Since he is an insider at B.I. I’m inclined to accept that his opinion carries some weight on the matter.

Everything he has said about his own project so far has bee lazily thrown out, this seems no different for example his original statement “we won’t allow modding.

 

schrapple:
spooler,
Rockets statement wasn’t about what modding would do to the sales of AAA titles

It was a statement say that if Dice wanted to they could sink ARMA by releasing modding tools.

You just contradicted your own point. If DICE could “sink ARMA” by releasing modding tools, then that is the definition of modding tools affecting the sales of AAA titles (ARMA being one of them).

On topic: I wish developers would stop being so friggen terrified of modding on their games. It’s either pride or fear that stops them wanting to do it. Pride that they don’t want people molesting their years of hard work into something different, or fear that somehow releasing modding tools will cause waves of “hackers” to ruin the game… news flash: hackers, by definition, don’t need modding tools.

Really shits me when the decision makers in their ivory towers don’t have a fucking clue what’s going on down on the ground.

 

shinanigans,

ARMA, AAA Title??? This guy cracks me up.

 

spooler,

spooler:
schrapple,

Then why would dice care ?

Dice’s feelings and/or opinions on the matter are irrelevant, the original statement by Rocket was about what he thinks would happen if Dice released modding tools. The pros and cons for Dice have never even been raised, the whole point to the statement is what it would do to ARMA.

spooler:
schrapple,

And there’s no supporting evidence for the fact that mod tools for battlefield would make any difference at all people would still mod ARMA just as they did when A2 first came out.

Of course there is no supporting evidence, it was an opinion on a hypothetical situation. Would people still mod ARMA? Of course. Would as many people still mod AMRA if the could mod frostbite instead? Of course not.

There is a lot of reading between the lines going on here with this statement and there isn’t a lot of point debating what people think he is saying. At the end of the day the only debatable point is the statement that dice could kill ARMA if they wanted to by releasing modding tools.

 
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