Dragon Age’s lead writer admits to “increasingly toxic” environment of BioWare forums
By Tim Colwill on January 10, 2013 at 7:34 pm
David Gaider, lead writer on Dragon Age, has used his personal blog to explain his avoidance of the BioWare Social Network forums — something he puts down to them feeling “increasingly toxic” and hostile.
“The BioWare Social Network doesn’t constitute the be-all and end-all of BioWare’s fans,” Gaider writes. “They are certainly a group of passionate folks, and while I wouldn’t say they were all ‘utterly gross’ as you put it I do agree that the overall tone of the forums has become increasingly toxic.”
“I tend to largely avoid them these days, myself. Why? Because spending too much time there starts to make me feel negative – not just about the games we make, but about myself and life in general. That’s not a good feeling to have (…) the signal-to-noise ratio does seem to be worsening, and eventually you get the feeling like you’re at one of those parties where all anyone is doing is bitching. It doesn’t matter what they’re bitching about so much as, sooner or later, that’s all you can really hear.”
“At any rate,” he concluded, “rest assured that the BSN is not the only place we go to see what ‘our fans’ think about something. I suspect you’d get a skewed opinion of almost any game if you went solely by its dedicated online community. They certainly serve their place, and if you want to gauge the temperature of the hardest of the hardcore’s opinions about core matters there’s probably no better place to go… but representative of all fans? Not in the slightest.”
Source: VG247
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In before “Something something Dragon Age 2 was bad, something something”
I agree with him entirely, I spent a little bit of time there discussing Mass Effect games, but there’s only so long I want to spend with that much negativity.
You get it on every forum. Even, gods forbid, on this one. People vent about what they feel passionate about – I should know, I’ve done it far too many times to not feel ashamed about it. I’m glad its not the only place they look at for their feedback though.
The problem with that sort of environment is that it tends to drive away your moderates, until all you are left with are your howling psychopaths… again, speaking uncomfortably from personal experience, where I was the howlee. It takes a bit to step away and calm down, and some people just don’t.
All forums tend to degenerate over time. Best way to is to just try to keep engaging the people in as meaningful conversation as possible.
HEY FUCK YOU NEMESIS_22 THIS FORUM IS NOT NEGATIVE AT ALL WHY DON’T YOU GO BACK TO WHATEVER HELLSPIT SPAWNED YOUR SOUL TAKING ASS
j/k I <3 you man, if I was asked to name three players from the Good Old Days (TM) on IGNNWN you'd be name number two
I say this about all “toxic” online gaming communities; you reap what you sow.
If you foster open, intelligent communication between the developers and the paying customer, treat the community like adults and be transparent as possible with changes and design choices, you usually wind up with a community that is mostly interested in mature discussion. The trouble makers you do have to stamp out are usually quickly reported and discouraged by the community themselves.
On the other hand, if your forum is moderated almost at random, your lines of communication are nearly non-existent, feedback is practically ignored (especially after releasing a sub-standard product) and the paying customer is treated with little but contempt, then you are doomed from the start to have an unhelpful, frustrated community of malcontents.
Now based on Bioware’s history the last few years (not just DA2), which category do you think BSN falls under?
I left the Bio forums years ago because it seemed any post made that was even slightly critical of Bioware was deleted – the moderators must have got pretty lax lately if they’re now “toxic” – I left for precisely the opposite reason – it was too heavily moderated for any meaningful discussion to take place let alone for a debate to become toxic.
Overreacting much? Bioware could be everything everyone wanted and people would still find a reason to complain, because that’s just what some people like doing.
Im guessing the not well received ending of ME3/ME trilogy doesnt help things with fans potentially wanting to try and ruin the Bioware forums.
A lot of official forums tend to be this way, I used to frequent the Bethesda forums and got similar vibes. Lots of “Done with Bethesda” threads, lots of “Done with if” threads. Lots of grandstanding and drama. GON’s forums are pretty laid back, I think.
Bioware was always well respected, and talked about fondly. Everyone was excited about the possibility of the next Bioware game. I always pictured Bioware fans as similar to wine connoisseurs, sitting around discussing how the latest game affects their palete.
Now I think of Bioware as EA. I picture fans in track suits, buying wine in a cask for a cheap way to get intoxicated, vomiting it up a few hours later, and feeling sorry for themselves the next day, complaining to everyone who will listen about their hangover.
anachronous,
That last image is so poetically true. I. I have no words.
That being said, Bioware was so praised for amazing story writing, and they would’ve kept that mantle too, but they decided to change the ending because someone stole it. The old ending was gonna be nice. But water under the bridge, lets see what they come up with next.
Bioware wouldn’t be having these problems if they’d just stop making games for assholes. Accessibility.. it has a price.
What a bunch of children. You didn’t like ME3′s ending, now Bioware are a bunch of uncaring fatcats and the world’s going to end.
Sometimes the internet makes me happy, sometimes it makes me despair.
PS – DA2 was a better story than DAO. Take that, Tim.
If I could +1 this post I would. I laughed a little bit when reading this and it is so, so accurate.
Riffraff I think is the best difinition of these people. They have very little ability to articulate their words in a way that’s not negative or offensive. Couple this with the fact people think they can say what they want on the net without any consequences, and any admin will have difficulty moderating the conversation.
Games are a funny thing though. It’s difficult to gauge what a game is worth until you have experienced it. To do this you have to pay upfront most of the time. If your not happy with a game after playing you feel ripped off. Then your stuck with a game you can’t sell to get some return.
A good example of this for me was the force unleashed dlc. I think I paid $20 for less than an hours worth or play. Not worth it at all to me.
Consumers expect a lot of games when they purchase them as generally there is limited opertunity to try before you buy. Unfortunately dev’s cop a lot of flack because its impossible to meet everyone’s expectations.
IMO the whole business model has worked itself into a bit of a pickle.
I’d like to meaningfully contribute if I can, so here goes. Having played ME3 and being more or less happy with it, I was a bit weirded out by the ending. I went back a few times and tried to see how the different choices played out, and was a bit mystified, but in the end I just let it go, and even started playing again. So I did get my money’s worth out of the game. But there is just so much bitterness on the bioware forums and elsewhere about that little ending matter that it just drives me nuts.
On the topic of the increasing toxicity of the bioware forums, I don’t quite understand it. I’m not sure if the fans were building up ME3 to be the greatest game in history or not, but I do feel that if you weren’t satisfied with a game, then you have no business carrying on about it for months on end, which is what many people on the bioware forums have done. I just don’t understand it. That and anytime someone brings up bioware, someone messing up a game, or something along those lines, Mass Effect 3 will often get a mention, so I think that believing that these people are a little too entitled and full of themselves is a bit warranted. Why not just let it go and move on to another game?
Also, I was much less satisfied with Mass Effect 2 to be honest, didn’t like the story much, or the loyalty quests, but I did manage to play it 6 or 7 times, so it must have done something right.