Community Soapbox: Should game companies use Blu-ray discs for PC game installation media?
By PalZer0 on January 18, 2013 at 8:16 pm
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With the recent announcement that BioShock Infinite would require a 3 DVD install and 30GB of HDD space (along with previous titles having 20GB+ installs – RAGE, Max Payne 3 and Hitman Absolution to name a few), the time has come to ask the question: Should game companies be using Blu-ray for PC game installation media?
Before presenting my view on this, let’s look at the specs.
DVD vs Blu-ray – by the numbers
Dual-layer DVDs hold approximately 9GB of data. This causes certain games to have multiple discs for installation (three in the case of BioShock Infinite and Max Payne 3 – and that’s with heavy compression on disc). In contrast, Blu-ray discs can hold up to 50GB of data when using a dual layer disc (25GB for a single layer disc). This is up to about five times the amount of data that a dual layer DVD can hold.
The benefits of switching to Blu-ray
The first benefit of switching to Blu-ray is pretty obvious. The extra amount of space on a Blu-ray disc means less disc-swapping. This leads on to another benefit — less disc-swapping means less wear and tear on the eject mechanisms on Blu-ray drives, meaning the drives will, in theory, last longer.
Along with this, the extra space available on Blu-ray will make it easier to include high-resolution textures for PC games on the disc (and who doesn’t love high-resolution textures?). This will, in turn, make PC games look better.
Also, given that most PC games are also released on PS3 (which uses Blu-ray as the standard format), it wouldn’t be too hard to factor PC discs in Blu-ray disc production orders for when games get shipped.
The negatives of switching to Blu-ray
Blu-ray discs tend to cost more which could end up driving up prices of games at stores (which would have a flow-on effect to digital pricing). Along with this, it can be a bit of a hard sell for people who don’t have a Blu-ray drive in their PC to get one installed.
What if I don’t have a Blu-ray drive in my PC?
These can be had for as little as $54 for a DVD burner/Blu-ray reader combo drive (prices sourced from StaticIce) and they’re dead easy to install. Remember when you replaced that old CD drive with a DVD drive? The same process is used when replacing a DVD drive with a Blu-ray drive (it’s made even easier with the prevalance of drives using SATA instead of IDE).
My opinion
Game companies should start using Blu-ray discs for PC game installation media going forward. However, this shouldn’t be done in a rush. It should be done in stages (start with games requiring three DVDs or more – preferably with a Blu-ray version sold in tandem with the DVD version for a while) and gradually work backwards from there when people start getting comfortable with the idea – with the ultimate outcome being Blu-ray discs becoming standard issue much like DVDs are now (and before that, CDs).
When people start getting comfortable with Blu-ray drives as a requirement going forward, developers can add in all the high-res textures packed onto the disc. It would also help save money in the long run on disc production and packaging costs as there would only be 1 disc to pack per retail unit instead of 2, 3 or more.
What are your thoughts? Sound off in the comments.
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Blu-ray sounds like a good idea, though I haven’t physically purchased a PC game in 4 years.
Eh. It doesn’t really matter.
Optical discs are really only used to install the game, then forgotten about.
Once you have the game installed it’s usually tied to a game distribution platform such as Steam, Origin, uPlay etc’.
From there you can download it again as many times as you want.
However, I do have a Blu-ray drive, never used a blu-ray in it, but if Developers rather span a game over Multiple DVD’s then sure, if they can save some money and lower the price of the games. (Not going to happen!)
Otherwise, Bring on the Blu Ray so that their price gauging can be for a bloody good reason.
^this
But no they shouldn’t I hate blu-ray it’s painfully slow
a very hard sell.
blu ray drives are not at all common in PCs, and have no reason to be. there is little drive for PCs to support them, unlike DVDs back when they were starting to be released. not everyone has the technical ability to install a drive, I don’t think you have a good grasp of the gaming population at large.
it would also be a short term measure for the majority of the gaming population. soon it will be likely that all distribution will be digital. speeds are increasing every 18 months, and AFAIK caps are following that trend. then you have cases where the ISPs cache the material themselves, like iinet group does with steam, eliminating the need for large caps.
looking into the future it just seems like a move to solid state memory for physical distribution will be better (alongside digital distribution). buy a game and receive a USB stick, or SD card, or whatever, with the game on there. the capacity is ever increasing in that form factor, and isn’t subject to the same amount of wear.
using blu ray for games distribution seems like such a short-term solution I doubt it’s economically viable.
I’m going with no. Broadband is only getting faster and the number of people without access to it is continually decreasing. Physical distribution networks are very expensive, they are probably adding $5 onto the cost of every game you buy, even digitally. The sooner they die, the sooner a company can start reducing prices, or making more profit which allows them to take risks on other games.
It’d be about friggin’ time.
Must be nice to live in Fantasytown, but the mean Aussie Internet connection speed as at Q4 2012 was 4.4Mbps. There are many more people with <4.4Mbps connections than those with faster connections. Consider if you will those poor souls such as myself who are stuck with less than half that, and most of them won't see anything better for 10 years.
Of course Blu-Ray is painfully slow (in terms of local storage, at least). But compared to DVD, Blu-Ray has three times higher sustained transfer rate (which is what matters most when installing a game) at 36Mbps. Check your facts ;)
Physical media will be around for just a little bit longer yet.
My disc drive is only used to install windows.
I have a bluray drive in my PC and think the technology is cheap enough to warrant an upgrade to blurays for games that use more than two DVDs, for example Shogun 2 total war is one game I am no way going to download anytime soon and with it being spanned across 3 DVDs a single disc would be preferred.
Same argument I used for the DVD changeover still applies from back when you could buy the CD or DVD editions of games. If at this point in time your computer is good enough to run new release games, you will have a Blu-ray drive, they have been standard in pre-built systems for over 3 years, if you built it yourself and didn’t upgrade, it’s dirt cheap and easy enough to do it.
However having said that, I don’t really see much future in physical media, Digital Distribution is HUGE at the moment, it is fast, easy, and so far, reliable. If the rumours are true even the consoles are going digital distro next generation so publishers can cut out several middlemen in the distribution chain, and negate the ability to sell pre-owned titles, which will net them more profits. (not saying that as consumers we will see any of that extra money though)
BluRay is just another doomed media… I haven’t had a DVD drive in my PC for at least 5 years.
BD failed as a replacement for DVD due to the very simple fact that the quality wasn’t significantly better than up scaled DVD for the masses to buy into the hype. Nobody was going to re-buy all of their movies again on BDROM for a minor upgrade in pixel density which to the untrained eye looked like film grain.
BluRay has come too late for the games industry to use it as a sales pitch. Broadband has already filled in that hole that BDROM is to fill. No room at the inn so to speak.
I just bought a 3TB external HDD for $123 from JBHifi… why would I want another optical storage system when everything is a click of a button away at that price?
Forget Optical Media, I want to see USB Drives.
I agree. There’s no reason they can’t start producing titles in Blu-ray and DVD format. I remember when buying BF2 years ago you had the choice of CD or DVD versions. It will happen eventually but like all things change is driven by cost. If Blu-ray was so cheap to produce they would be using it already. Look at the cost of Blu-ray movies to DVD movies. Obliviously the cost of production for Blu-ray media is still considered too high by the publishing companies. In saying that I think the last time a purchased a physical copy of any game was 2008. Digital download for everything ever since. And with the NBN type projects getting gradually getting rolled out around the world it makes the production cost of physical media even less cost effective to publishers.
Indeed. Does anyone actually still buy boxed PC games these days? Especially in this country of artificial price fixing by these greedy retailers. Heck I can do one better; I can’t even remember the last time I opened/needed my Bluray Drive.
Why pay 80-100 price gouged bucks at a store/wait 2 or 3 weeks shipping for an import; when I can buy a digital key for a fraction of that cost and be downloading and playing within hours.
Digital Distribution is, and has been the way to go for years now.
Hello there Mearehear, and thanks for sharing your time with us to answer a few questions.Firstly please tell us, does your current PC system have a Bluray drive?
No imaginary interview person, I don’t have a Bluray drive in my PC, nor does anyone I know at this time (in the “real” world).
But Mearehear, do you plan to get a Bluray drive?
..Nope, I’m afraid I don’t see myself getting one anytime soon
..And why would that be Mearehear?
Cause Internets..
Cause “internets”? Hmm, I see. Well I take it by that somewhat tongue in cheek answer you are actually referring to digital distribution services?”
You win some Internets, well done imaginary Sir!
So what is it exactly then Mearehear that doesn’t appeal enough to you to install a Bluray drive
The Floppy disk!
The Floppy disk is why you won’t use a Bluray drive?
You are correct again Sir, have some more Internets! Now let me ask you a question in turn. Do you still have a Floppy Disk drive in your PC?
Well no I don’t Mearehear. Not for quite some years now
But your PC still uses megabytes and gigabytes correct?
Chuckles! Well yes, last time I checked all the mb’s and gb’s were still in place in my PC, you may even find a few terabytes.I take it from that line of question you are inferring that physical media has a “used by date” whereas digital distribution will always be relevant
It’s like it’s Christmas, I am giving you so many Internets! Yes, you are correct. So long as we have am adequate internet system that accommodates those needs, which I believe we have now reached.
Well on that note, thanks for your time Mearehear, and for your somewhat vague, but relevant, answers.
I like turtles
Chuckles! Yes I am sure you do! …..
……..
Another issue with using Blu Ray for games is that standard PS3 blu ray drives read the disc about 40% slower than a DVD, which effects read data & performance of the games.
For the most part though, I just cant see any point in using BR discs. Every gaming entity out there is already moving to an online delivery system for games as it is.
As I noted in the article, most retail PC games are also released on PS3 which uses Blu-ray as the standard disc format. This means it would be easy to factor in PC retail units when making orders for Blu-ray discs as they can be combined with PS3 retail units.
i’m more for getting rid of CD’s altogether and moving forward with usb drives or somthing similar there are 64gb ones now?
I have a BR player in the PC.
I buy most of my favourite shows in BR because they look so much better but I don’t expect it to be wide spread enough to be used for games
that was only on release. that’s no longer an issue, and as someone else has pointed out, they actually read faster than a DVD now.
I don’t know about easy. you would need a lot more BD infrastructure to get the orders done, and as has been pointed out, BD is likely a short term solution. why invest in something that’s likely to be superseded by digital/solid state in a short amount of time?
and that’s not even the biggest issue. people just won’t go out and buy a BD player for their PC.
yeah, they are getting ridiculously large. even the microsd cards are getting huge. problem with the higher capacity ones is cost. however, I can see a time where supplying solid state storage is cheaper than optical.
Unfortunately, PalZer0 , you missed the all important history of new technology adoption which would have aided in your point. I am talking floppy to CD; CD to DVD; and the failed attempts in between.
:)…
Had one installed in my PC for aaaaages, exactly like the one pictured, but never had a reason to use it. Would be nice if they had an option to, like a bluray or DVD option. But thats being unrealistic…
As pointed out, Digital distribution has pathed the way, doubt physical sales will keep that market share.
Until Blu-Ray totally phases out DVD Drives (which we’re years off, PC Wise) I doubt it’ll happen within the next 5 years.
I’ve bought maybe 2 retail pc games in the last few years. Blu ray tech is of no interest to me. I think I could handle swapping discs for installation if I do I buy a retail pc game again. If blu ray was forced into the market, it would probably be another strike against retail stores for me, as opposed to upgrading. Retail stores for pc games will probably die out before another media format becomes mainstream.
I don’t have a problem buying a Blu-ray drive. I was considering it during my last upgrade but decided not to as i really don’t have a reason to have one. Hell, i really don’t have a reason to have a DVD drive. The last time I used it was to reinstall windows, and that disc is still in there. The last physical copy of a game I purchased was Skyrim (when it was new), and only because it was cheap from an overseas delivery company.
^This.
Even Planetary Annihilation is planning on providing commander shaped usb keys for backers! :)
I find I have little use for an optical drive with a computer. I am buying a cheap USB 3.0 external box to put one of my DVD sata drives inside, and taking out the optical drives in all 3 computers in the house. I have Win7 on a USB memory stick, if I ever need to install it again.
The survey says?
[X][X][X]
Not required. If you can’t afford a decent connection you can deal with having to swap discs a few times, as chances are updating your optical drive and paying more for games is not going to be your thing either.
submariner,
Mmmm universal Win 7 installer on USB. Optical drives are now obsolete.
Of course, I do have pity for those who have been stooged by Telstra in Australia, but you can’t expect a minority of a minority to have much impact on worldwide distribution trends.
Having said that, you can’t microwave an internet connection to make sweet lightning, but you CAN do that with an optical disc.
This might actually make sense if the production cost of the retail packaging + disk wasnt approx $0.12 a unit (so basically nothing in the grand scheme of things).
Having boxes split over manufacturers as a result of different media actually allows for more ordering flexibility, possibly lowering costs and lowering manufacture time (Though we’d never see that saving knocked on regardless).
For those looking for USB sticks as an option there is a cost factor involved ($15+ for a 32 Gb stick from my quick staticice check) but there is also a more worrying problem nobody has mentioned.
DRM!!!!!
I can see UbiEaBlizztivision jumping on this opportunity to develop their own proprietary DRM systems which would require the USB stick to be connected at all times (and also still need a constant internet connection, just cos they can). So now instead of just needing a disc for installs you would need to have all your game USB sticks ready to swap in whenever you want to play.
Another seemingly good idea subverted into DRM hell all to easily.
I think it would be better off doing what a lot of movie company are doing, and sell the DVD and Blu-Ray in one package. Its actually cheeped to buy it like that, for what ever reason, so I don’t see why it would not be like that for games.
Not until games requiring up to 5 DVD’s becomes the norm and even then it’ll be a hard sell what with DD. Though I disagree with some of the people saying bluray won’t come in as just because you guys are going DD exclusive doesn’t mean everyone has or will.
It’ll be a while yet before we’re at a stage where moving to bluray would be a smart move and anything could happen between now and that time. The next gen consoles will be the real pusher if PC games go to bluray and even then at first they’ll give the option between a multi DVD version or a buray version just like they had previously with CD’s and DVD’s.
USB drives for games? Good in theory but flash memory is easily broken. It would work if say Steam or Uplay games came on a USB and you could backup said game installers from that client to your USB. after updates. This could be sort of a backup thing. This idea works with Digital distribution not against.
craw,
USB keys as DRM is as old as USB its self. its nothing new and no doubt it will happen if games are released on USB memory. as for cost factor there is one with DVDs and Blu-ray + the time it takes to write the media, while this is true as well with USB memory some drives may be quicker on the write status than DVD’s and Blu-ray, buying the drives at wholesale will also cause the cost of the drives to drop..
Hell I got a better idea, Start distributing the games on SSD drives, Every PC then has an external 2.5″ Bay dock that you just hot swap SSD’s out of with the games ready to play, no installation required.
I can’t really see USB like devices for PC games, for consoles sure (I frankly want that to be the next format, so much faster and any updates, DLC and save games going straight to the card) but my gut for whatever reason says it won’t fly with PC’s.
I don’t even use mine to install windows as there is a tool that Microsoft provides on there site to install windows to a USB drive.
Every install is digital download for me. Even if I get a copy from the shop, all I do is ad the CD key to Steam or origin and let it download, this way its all up to date and ready to go.
As for which way the retail copies should go. It would be hard to push people in the direction of a Blu-Ray drive. I really think that with USB drives dropping in price we could start to see these used in a few years or in the next console cycle. Simple easy and you just plug it in and away it goes.
Time will tell.
What type of player software do you use?
I have a Blu-Ray in my old computer, I didn’t bother with getting one in my new machine. I have 8 movies on Blu-Ray, I’ve only ever watched 2 of them, the others wont play, at least they wouldn’t last time I tried. From what I can tell they keep doing something to the format so that the PC software has to be constantly updated to play newer titles. Each new release of the player software seemed to have less features than the version before. I may be paranoid but it all stank of Sony putting the boot into PC’s. It’d be interesting to know if the PC’s they make have the same problems.
The main issue with Blu-ray adoption at launch was its competitor HD-DVD. With HD-DVD out of the picture and no new optical disc formats on the horizon from what I can tell, there seems to be a lot moe certainty and stability in optical media (hence why Hollywood is moving full steam ahead with getting movies onto Blu-ray – new and old).
Unfortunately, it’s a bit of a chicken and egg scenario with PC Blu-ray drives. People aren’t buying them because of a lack of PC software that comes on Blu-ray discs yet software companies aren’t using Blu-ray discs for installation media because because of the low install base of Blu-ray drives. Eventually, something has to give.
Another suggestion I could see implemented is having the special editions of PC games use Blu-ray for installation media (much like how the special edition of Quake 4 came on DVD whereas the normal edition had multipe CDs – I believe it was 4).
sar84,
That’s just bluray in general. Bluray has no standard and Sony just keeps upgrading and changing things requiring new software and firmware in the case of bluray players. Heck some of the older bluray players can’t even play newer blurays. It’s part of why I wanted HDDVD to win the war at the time, because they had completed the HDDVD standard so it wouldn’t have been in constant flux.
Switching 3 disks during installation really shouldn’t be a problem. Heck, it wasn’t a problem 10 years ago when DVDs first started coming out and games still required a CD to run. These days the disks are just a medium between purchasing it and getting it on your computer. If there were 5-7 DVDs then *maybe* there’s an argument, but even then are we getting that lazy that we cannot bear to change disks midway through an installation process?
Of course, if it were a more financially viable and desirable option, companies would already be switching to blu-ray as its mode of storage. They not, and given that the PC market is shifting more to digital sales, I wouldn’t expect them to any time soon. Thankfully.
Not everyone has a fast internet connection to download their games.
I personally had to leave my computer on overnight to download a client of that size on ADSL2+. Where as now that I’ve moved Metro I have Cable and can download Planetside 2 for example which weighs in at 7GB, in about 15 minutes. If games came on BluRay however I would much rather be able to physically own the game and know I don’t have to wait three times as long for the download to finish as it would be for an install to be pulled from disc.
I think there is a place for this in certain situations
Remember when you could play tex murphy over 7 cds?
Being 50gb (theoretical was at 400gb last I heard) the blu-ray definitely has a place in the pc gaming world, when all our textures are 1024 at low res (2048 as std) and EVERY character in a game has a unique high def voice, when we are using big data crunching for our 3d engine (see http://www.euclideon.com/ and watch the vids) our sizes of our games will expand especially with increased details et al. if we use uncompressed (or very little compression) for hd video that space gets chewed up very quickly.
I think it’s definitely an option until high capacity flash (100gb or over) becomes feasible, thank goodness hd-dvd didn’t make any impact.
storm84,
Calling people lazy is not reasonable as gaming shouldn’t be like work at all. Well if you call inserting one disk is lazy than the digital way of not inserting any disc at all is even lazier. If blu ray does become standard it would cheaper to make them because of larger production which why Games would cost the same if it had blu ray. Am I the only person that like physical game manuals.
nanorazor,
How is switching disks “work”? At best, it’s a mild inconvenience. But things install so quickly these days that it hardly matters anyway. And that’s the point, there’s no real advantage in switching from DVD to blu-ray in the same way there was CD to DVD, or floppy to CD. I still have my copy of Diablo II on three CDs, and remember having to make a choice between running the cinematics from a separate disk to the play disk, or filling up what was a very limited HDD in order to avoid that. These days we have large hard-drives with no need for the disks other than as installation. Of course, that’s nothing compared to when I was a youngster swapping in and out floppy disks while the game was still playing. Only one disk that isn’t even needed during gameplay? As the Four Yorkshiremen might say: “Luxury!”
I’m pretty sure you’ll get your physical manuals whether or not your game comes on 3 DVDs or one blu-ray.
Something people also like to do is leave an installation going while they do something else. Blu-ray makes this easier too as the installation doesn’t stall while it’s waiting for the next disc.
Sounds like we’re in the same boat – I’m lucky to get 1.5Mbps, but I don’t have any problem downloading games.
It is unfortunate that Cyanworlds killed their own franchise (Myst) with Myst V, otherwise you can bet your bottom dollar that they would be responsible for the first Bluray exclusive. Cyan were the first company to release a game exclusively on CD (Myst) and they were the first to do so for DVD (Myst III: Exile) so it is a pity they went and made a realtime 3D Myst and ruin the whole thing for everyone.
Bring on Bluray…
storm84,
Well this might encourage more content though… having space for extra content or even better texture. I Just wanted to say that Blu ray will still replace DVD as games like Shogun 2 have huge files (2 disc and 10gb Directx update). and also used Steam.
I suppose thats another issue Australia wise; our internet is still overpriced and low DL speed in a good 80% of the country as opposed to say Europe and US.
I am using my DVD drive at the moment but that is only because I am a pensioner living in poverty and could’t afford to spend the $15.00 to buy Crysis on Steam exactly when I wanted to install it.
Otherwise I would be playing it without a disc at all.
I have bought some older games multiple times because I first bought them on a physical medium and later found them on sale at steam so I wouldn’t have to use a disc anymore.
I hate scratched discs so an optical media free world suits me fine. I have 2 copies of Forza3 because I scratched one but the good news is I install from the good disc and authenticate from the scratched one so can play multiplayer at home with friends.