Comments on: Sitrep: Too much killin’, and the moral backlash

By: James Pinnell

James Pinnell — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 23:33:43 +0000

joshsux: I wouldn’t think / talk about this crap if you guys didn’t post about it often… All the time I see has gaming gone too far? man dies playing video games, etc etc…. Idk idk idk, I like games, games are games, you can’t go too far because it is just a video game. END OF STORY!

It's something to think about though, even if you don't consciously realize it when you're playing a game.

By: tacitus42

tacitus42 — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 08:23:38 +0000

You don’t actually have to kill the guards in MGS2 to get their dog tags. The entire game can be played and in fact is easier to play if you tranq everyone.

By: rsoblivion

rsoblivion — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 06:07:24 +0000

Interesting, but I think that the problem with killing is it’s always made as the forefront of the game. It’s lost it’s context and has become the centrepiece of the game for most FPS’s and even RPG’s. There are multiple ways to track your stats as to how you killed and what you used to kill, but other than a tally stick there is no reference to these targets as being living or even human.

Good point on No One Lives Forever. That was and still is one of the best games I ever played. So funny, so in your face about what you are doing is wrong. The best bit has to be the guy trying to sell the guard the monkey!

Anyway, bringing context back to the player is where to get them to ask questions. Re-creating a world where you have an effect via your actions rather than spawning an infinite number of clones to keep you interested. That’s what’s needed, unlikely for that to occur though with the current Publishers and Dev’s being caught in sequelitis mode…

By: edward

edward — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 02:23:38 +0000

I have been killing baddies since I was a wee boy, Wolfenstein 3D didn’t make me feel sorry for them…

I think the first time I noticed any game trying to make the people real was No one lives forever, these bad guys had a life and story – often amusing.

They spoke about their girlfriend, wife. Happy they just got a job with an evil corporation. Getting married. Planning to go on a holiday, things like this and then I went and killed them, I ruined their life and the life of their families.

In this game you had a bit of choice not to kill some people, but it wasn’t easy not to do so. And it was a comedy, but its a good start and what I’d like to see more life like characters with a life to loose! Make the AI smarter and less scripted events.

Make them want to fight for their life. Too often AI is just dumb and so in to the idea of killing you because they where told to and not be concerned about their own life. When they see you massacre everyone away, why don’t a few try and surrender? What will you do? Tie them up and leave? knock them out? or shoot them anyway?

Give us real people and real choices to ponder about to break up our massacre fun.

The character should not react, we should react, forced reactions suck!

By: Toby McCasker

Toby McCasker — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 01:34:47 +0000

instinx, Haha, someone who still reads dead tree! Chuffed, mate. Hanging out with Yohalem boosted my expectations for this one, too. He is genuinely dead-set about giving it real oomph. I thought it was awesome that Ubi sent a writer out to do the game's advance spiel, and not the regular ol' media-trained golem we usually get. Spoke volumes.

By: instinx

instinx — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 01:28:53 +0000

It was you! That article (Not this one, the interview) convinced me, if i needed any more, to be excited for Far Cry 3. He sounds like he really wants to make a lasting impression with the game. Also its amazing how many of GoNs writers have written around haha. Said issue from whence article came also convinced me to get spec ops the line and be more excited for dishonoured.

By: meji

meji — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 00:31:23 +0000

It’s difficult to base a game on killing things and then try and make you feel guilty or to feel some sort of empathy for your victims. Now if it was a game where killing wasn’t the main form of “entertainment” then you can carry more moral weight to it.

So hearing Far Cry developers saying how there is going to be this emotional impact on the protagonist for all the killing rings quite hollow, to me. Sure you could make the games protagonist all cut up about the guys he shot while they were drinking latte’s at Bad Guy HQ or whatever, but how do you make the player feel that when the game is already all about shooting people up? Taking a gamer into a shooter then trying to make them feel guilty about the carnage seems quite counter-productive to me.

I don’t really want to see people in the next iteration of GTA crying on forums about how they feel guilty about that guy the ran over then shot for good measure and threw in a dumpster.

The thing is guilt is a result of an action (yes people can feel guilt about even thinking about an action but how do you convey that in a game that pre-deed guilt?) If perhaps a developer can make it so those emotions are elicited before actions, that choices have a “real” moral weight attached to them, then I think that game would be a work of art. But, are there any games that could be considered art? Probably. Are any of them shooters? hell no, imo.

Uncharted? I agree completely.

By: Toby McCasker

Toby McCasker — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 23:43:27 +0000

joshsux, I think you're spectacularly missing the point. It's not "Has gaming gone too far?" (I even made a disclaimer about exactly that...) but rather, "Where is gaming right now, and why?" It's worth thinking about. You don't wanna end up like the Romans now, right? All drunk on senseless violence-as-spectacle and wide open to SURPRISE BARBARIAN ATTACK

By: pinothyj

pinothyj — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 23:35:53 +0000

Humanity! FUCK YEAH!

By: Murray Hibble

Murray Hibble — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 22:05:15 +0000

You had me at Drake. I could never (still cannot) get my head around the difference between the Drake from cut-scenes (and his little quips while spidermanning across levels), and the merciless kill-machine he is in the battle sections. Uncharted should have been a stealth-action game if it was to be true to its characters.

By: joshsux

joshsux — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 13:17:59 +0000

I wouldn’t think / talk about this crap if you guys didn’t post about it often… All the time I see has gaming gone too far? man dies playing video games, etc etc…. Idk idk idk, I like games, games are games, you can’t go too far because it is just a video game.

END OF STORY!

By: ivantsr

ivantsr — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 11:57:56 +0000

Have you guys all started to go through a quarter/mid life crisis?

By: rogertheincredible

rogertheincredible — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 09:17:17 +0000

For those of us that grew up blasting sprites and monochromatic pixels I believe there is a healthy disconnect as we are entirely aware of the digital nature of our targets. I would think any feelings of guilt at ending a player’s turn are akin to the emotions felt in any competitive arena. The difference being you have no real ability to do harm if the person on the other end is level-headed.
That’s not to say it’s not possible for a good developer to make an emotionally charged game that has you questioning your motivations and the consequences of your virtual killings. I believe a game like that could be considered art.

By: gnavin

gnavin — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 08:29:42 +0000

That’s an interesting element to add to a multiplayer game. Contrast with, say, TF2 (though in all fairness it’s an apples to oranges comparison – TF2 is *designed* to be an unrealistic shooter) where players are indirectly encouraged to chase down and kill the opposing team.

That said, sad to say I think that people on the internet are going to opt for “kill” more often than not. We’ll see, though.