Blizzard echoes Windows 8 catastrophe comments
By Tim Colwill on July 28, 2012 at 12:31 pm
Gabe Newell’s comments that Windows 8 was “a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space” have been echoed today by Blizzard. Executive Vice President of Game Design Rob Pardo took to Twitter to exclaim: “nice interview with Gabe Newell – ‘I think Windows 8 is a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space’* – not awesome for Blizzard either”.
With Valve making plans for Linux support just in case Windows 8 causes an early apocalypse, it’ll be interesting to see if Rob Pardo can convince Blizzard to do the same.
Source: Twitter
Friday Tech Roundup (17 May 2013): Windows 8.1 is almost upon us
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Steam Trading Cards are real, and you can join the beta now
More things to trade! Oh joy.
Analysts estimate 41% of all Windows 8 licenses sold aren’t being used
Only around 58 million Windows 8 PCs active worldwide.
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Bring gaming to opensource! I await the day I can have a purely linux/unix setup at home.
As long as Windows 8 doesn’t have always on DRM it’ll be easier to use then any Blizzard product released recently.
What incentive does Microsoft have? They want you to play games on their games console. They want game companies to do exclusive games and DLC for their game console and not the PC. Then they turn around and charge the game companies big money to update their games.
Whats the big problem with windows 8 anyway? (I guess i haven’t been paying attention)
I don’t get what all the fuss is about… you don’t HAVE to use the Metro UI in Windows 8, it still has a desktop like Windows 7. In fact it gets rid of all the Aero rubbish as well.
methinks it’s just a bandwagon they’re jumping on to get attention. Gabe Newell is a c*ck anyway.
not a whole lot, these reactions seem to be quite melodramatic if you ask me.
windows 8 is clearly trying to move in a different direction but I haven’t seen anything to suggest that PC gaming as we know it will suddenly become impossible.
Windows 8 itself is not really that much of a problem, it is however focused on handheld devices primarily tech-head and average nerd box second.
The assumption is windows is popular so big budget games are built on it. this is questioning if the fact is the other way around.
Windows 8 is the catalyst thats getting people to consider “what if we did design games for linux? would people even have windows then? Im sure windows 8 will be useable enough but the question of windows 8 being the dominant platform going foward is being asked.
Most people who frequent tech news and gaming sites wont or don’t have much of a problem with Windows 8 as we’re generally quite adept at learning new systems and setups. My problem with Windows 8 is I see the daily user side of things as I build/sell custom PCs and have to offer support for said PCs. As a result I deal with a lot of people who aren’t as adept at learning new things as people like us. This is the main reason why I greatly dislike Windows 8. The number of people I deal with who have issue with trying to learn windows 7 coming from XP is astounding (there isn’t that much of a daily usage difference between them). I feel sorry for the same sort of people coming from XP to 8, heck even those from 7 to 8 as the change is much more drastic. I am dreading the day I run out of copies of Windows 7 to sell with new systems, I can just hear the phone ringing off the hook now with questions and calls for tutoring and such. These are the people who’s PCs are going to fail in the time that Windows 8 is out, these are the people MS will be catering to this OS cycle, these are the people that are likely to abandon the Windows platform in favor of OS X (god I hope not) or Linux. This I believe is where Windows 8 will fail.
If some of the gaming industry leaders can publicly shame the lead PC platform they rely on for business then things aren’t looking too good for MS. Linux might finally get the big break it’s been looking for for so long. With Valve finally giving it the support it deserves and Windows 8 bombing out, with some luck we might see some other developers looking kindly upon the lonesome penguin.
This guys summed it up nicely. Windows 8 has a secondary, alernative UI which is metro. You still get your normal applications, as with 7 if you want to. No idea what gabe is talking about – sounds like he needs to do some more research or something before he starts bitching.
dajenko,
Nah. If Vista wasn’t a catalyst, Windows 8 surely won’t be a catalyst for devs to make games for Linux. Linux has many issues and is far, far, far from becoming mainstream. Most people think that Steam is somehow magically going to make all the games work. Wrong. Valve is going to make Valve games work, and oh what an impressive catalogue it is (like 10 games).
I played around with Windows 8 for about an hour and was using it like I programmed the damn thing; it’s really easy. But from the commercial side of things, I don’t really know what Gabe is on about, or this douche from Blizz. But then again, Gabe reminds me of Linus; cries like a girl with every change.
If people are not able to adapt to new changes, especially within the IT industry, where change occurs daily, then choose another profession because IT will always continue changing.
*wants to use Win8 to see if there really is a problem with it* :(
No. Gabe Newell has a very good point; a point which was outlined above by sgtmoo. The problem is not people like yourself (I’m assuming from your post that you are quite easily managing the Windows 8 UI). The problem is the very large number of people who only know enough about a computer to access an application or two that they regularly use. I personally have come across a surprising number of gamers who are unable to do many basic computing tasks.
The Metro interface itself is fairly aesthetically pleasing, I’ll give it that. However it is also very confusing.
1. It is different – While I personally like the change (at least as far as integrating web technology with the desktop), it will undoubtedly cause a major problem with those people who have just memorised the basic operations they need to use a program or two, without necessarily understanding what it is they are doing.
2. It is confusing – The Metro interface is all nice and minimal, however many important functions have been hidden away. The most glaring example I have found is the Shut Down operation. The most obvious way to do it is to press the start button to get to the main Metro screen, click the User Account Picture, click Log Out, wait for it to log out, click the Power button from the login screen, click Shut Down. That is a ridiculous amount of steps for something which used to be at most 3 clicks.
The faster way is to swipe the mouse along the right hand side of the screen, click Settings, click Power and finally click Shut Down. This faster method is hidden away behind an odd menu, and a button that you might not assume it would be hidden behind (the Settings button).
3. It is inconsistent – I think one of the biggest issues with Windows 8 is that there are the two interfaces, and you have no choice but to interact with both. You cannot avoid the Metro interface because all the power options and login options are behind it. You also cannot avoid the Windows 7 style desktop as that is the only way to perform file operations and use legacy* (term used lightly) applications. So you have to learn the basics of both systems, both of which have important missing features that can only be used through one of the two interfaces. While I am certain that over time Metro Apps will be developed to remove the majority of reliance on the alternative desktop, as it stands it causes many problems and only solves a few.
These three things will cause many major problems for developers; more importantly, they will cause problems for almost everyone using a Windows 8 desktop. For some it will be but a minor inconvenience, but for a significant number of users it will cause mayhem. Lots of IT workers are bound to be very nervous right now, they are going to have to deal with the impending wreckage (any Family Tech Support people, ye be warned). When the users inevitably start having trouble with the interface, that causes trouble for every IT based business that has any interaction with the Windows OS.
There are other problems with Windows 8 that are more important to developers. As suggested by Gabe Newell and many other people in the IT industry, these changes imply that Microsoft is attempting to lock down their platform. This has many possible consequences that can be seen readily in the iOS and Android platforms. Consequences such as the ability for Microsoft to shut down software that competes with their own, or at the very least make it difficult for them (sidestepping any anti-competitive laws no doubt). This directly affects companies such as Valve (Steam), EA Games (Origin), Blizzard (Battle.net) which compete with Games for Windows Live and Xbox Live. There are many other issues with the restricted platform, but this post is long enough.
To summarise, even though the changes seem to be avoidable in Windows 8, they will still cause many problems. These problems will affect the users, developers and tech support. They also make the future uncertain for almost every IT company including Valve, Blizzard and computer manufacturers such as Dell. What are they supposed to do if Windows 8 is a complete flop? Where will their customers go?
I’m just glad that Linux may finally get the acknowledgement it deserves.
I’ve been using Windows 8 on a laptop to trial it out for some time now, Windows 8 by its self is great, it boots much quicker and shutdowns much quicker than 7, I feel it uses its resources available to it much better, However the biggest killer I think and its what Gabe is saying is the metro face on the desktop is unneeded.
In a way it hinders desktop machines in a sense that most of the time in windows you spend looking at a desktop, this is true in windows 8 also, however if you now wish to start an application on windows 8, you have to (from the desktop) drag your mouse down to were the start bar use to be and left click, this will then bring up the metro UI, You from there then right click to bring up a sort of ‘pinned’ app bar and a button that displays all app, when you click that you basically get a full screen glorified start button. To which the app then takes you back to the desktop as it launches.
It all sounds perfect for a touch screen device but a mad pain in the ass for mouse users.
From what I gather from playing around with Win8, this wouldn’t seem to be quite true. The metro interface seems to be the default one without an obvious way of changing it.
When I was in the more traditional Windows 7 interface, it lacked any form of start button. Going to where the start button should have been lit up a horrible button that didn’t look like it belonged at all which, you guessed it, drops you back into Metro to choose your app.
So unless getting buried in the settings can bring you back to a genuine standard interface (which I fully admit may well be possible), the standard interface is severely hobbled and virtually demands you get back to Metro.
Oh and compared to droid or iOS, the Metro interface can only be described as putrid in look and awful in function. I was disappointed with every aspect of the experience other than the install, easily the quickest, simplest Windoze install I’ve done.
Given Diablo 3′s bumpy ride so far, I don’t think Blizzard’s in the right frame of mind to be calling out other company’s catastrophe’s…
I think the issue is that everyone’s assuming that OEMs are going to sell desktop/non-touchscreen laptops with Windows 8. I think it’s far more likely that they’ll keep Windows 7 as the default OS when people go to buy a desktop, with Windows 8 as an option, and only make 8 the default on systems that have touch screens.
If that’s what happens then there won’t be nearly as much backlash from the non-tech people, as the first experience they’ll have with Windows 8 will almost certainly be on a tablet, which is where Metro shines.
This comes back to a statement I made in the Gabe article, Windows 8 will probably do more for PC gaming than anything else since the start of the PC era. Think about how many people play games on their iPhones or iPads. Now imagine if they could play all those casual games, but then switch to MS Office when they need to get some work done, and then switch to a full spec PC game on the same device (x86 for the moment, but I’m sure some clever devs will modify their games to run on ARM). So a single Windows 8 tablet/touchscreen laptop can fill the rolls of a desktop workstation, portable gaming laptop and casual entertainment tablet. That will be huge, and Microsoft will be right there to profit from it. Add in a very tight integration with the Xbox (both the 360 and the next one) and Windows Phone, and Microsoft has positioned themselves to reap the benefits for years to come.
People can diss it all they want but the fact still remains that Windows 8 is indeed a faster OS then Windows 7.
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/07/23/hardware-accelerating-everything-windows-8-graphics.aspx
Take a look at the first two stories in this post – http://www.winsupersite.com/article/paul-thurrotts-wininfo/wininfo-short-takes-july-27-2012-143823
Bag Windows 8, grab the attention of the haters in the blogosphere, then in the same sentence promote your Linux gaming dreams, very smart Gabe. Cheap, but smart.
Next I expect EA (Origin) to throw their 2c in as all these developers have a distribution system that is under threat from the new Microsoft Store in years to come. Maybe it’ll bring pricing down, that would be a win for consumers!
isn’t the issue they’re talking about closing down how things are installed?
as far as I know, all tablets and phones have a very strict application installer. all apps pretty much have to be approved before being able to be purchased (assuming no cracking of the software). windows 8 is a tablet OS, so there’s a non-zero chance of microsoft implementing some sort of apple-esque app store that has strict controls of what can be installed on the OS.
not only would this mean a lot of extra work for game developers (and everyone else that makes applications), but it would also sort of be a direct competitor to their digital distribution techniques. why would game devs go through steam’s app store when they could go straight to windows? same with blizzard.
have gabe and blizzard actually expanded on their problem? or is everyone just speculating on what we think their issues are?
the issue I have talked about just seems infinitely more likely to ruffle their feathers than usability issues, even if there’s a small chance of it happening.
I believe you mean “rustle their jimmies”, not “ruffle their feathers”.
it’s not even out yet is it? i’m sure a lot of these complains will get ironed out or adjusted to work better as time goes on…i hope haha
Well, the world didn’t end when the Mac App Store came out for OS X, I see no reason why it would if Microsoft’s doing a similar thing.
The iPhone has an app store, Xbox Live has a game store, I don’t see how Microsoft having a store for Metro apps (and desktop as well, but it’s optional) will somehow cause PC gaming to crash in on itself. You’ll always be able to install any app you want on the desktop, though I’m not sure about sideloading apps on Metro.
I think a lot of people are defiantly jumping the gun here…
Im currently running Win 8 RP, besides a couple of minor bugs (which you would expect in a beta environment) I don’t really see what the bad fuss is about. basically, its Win 7 with a revamped start menu, which you don’t have to use apps or whatever. I personally like the metro setup, its pretty customisable.
Im also running it on my gaming machine and havnt had any problems running games at the moment.
But that’s me, its no big deal.
HOORAY! kelik gets it!
Yes this is a very long comment and re-covers a few things but hopefully it addresses many of the go-to comments people seem to be taking on both sides of the Win 8 good/bad and Blizzard/Valve argument and gives my opinion of it and the OS. While some of this may not make total sense and will contain numerous grammatical, punctuation and spelling errors owing to my poor method of writing stuff like this, all the information I’m trying to convey is in here somewhere. I apologise for any factual errors, no-one is perfect.
The first part of this is just re-iterating my previous comment
Too many people like ourselves live in a world where we and the majority of our friends are competent enough to never need to worry about this kind of thing and the handful of people we know that don’t have our skills we just label as for lack of a better word – daft – and help them when they need it. Unfortunately I am not like many of you and have it the other way around where I only know 2 other people with the ability to deal with and learn the changes in technology, my boss at work and 1 of my gaming friends. I have quite a few gaming friends that struggle to do basic maintenance on their PC (cleanup, defrag, updates, drivers), in addition to them there’s the mass of family and non-gaming friendsthat struggle with computers. On top of them there’s the constant flow of people at work that are so technology illiterate that they have to pay someone to keep their PC going every so often. All of you who claim that Windows 8 is easy and people should just man-up and learn it fail to realise you are in the very tiny minority that have the ability to do so and that there’s a larger world out there of people who do not share the same gifts as you.
If MS want people to use Windows 8 then they better start giving people like me in the IT retail and servicing industry a bonus so that we actually sell it and offer the support that will be needed so people know how to use the damn OS
Now as far as Valve and Blizzard go with their comments in regards to the OS I see a couple of reasons for their remarks.
The first it something akin to what happened in the EU where MS were forced to remove IE as the default browser and give people a choice in what browser they use when the computer is booted for the first time. MS will be pushing their app store and XBL as a bundled piece of software to push more people onto it in an attempt to grab the PC gaming market they hold very little of and push them to their console platform. Personally I don’t see it as too much of an issue. Most developers seem to dislike XBL due to patching restrictions, I don’t own an XBox and never intend to as it’s a useless console (don’t flame it’s childish) and anyone who was going to buy one would already have one by now. Their marketplace seems to be just a glorified phone “app” store where you can buy more shovel-ware and game clones like “Marfia Warz – Egypshan Blood” and other trash designed to make money off of you. Reality is, it’s just MS trying to copy Apple so they can make selling Office, Windows 9 and GFWL (Games For Windows Live) games to you more convenient and cut out the middle-man (retailer) to make more profit. Valve and Blizzard don’t want this as they see it as competition and they are right (surprised EA havn’t jumped in yet to defend Origin), MS are trying to compete with them. The silly thing is MS don’t seem to understand PC gamers, we have enough gaming services as it is (Steam vs Origin vs GOG vs OnLive vs etc), I’m pretty sure most gamers don’t want another service (GFWL/XBL) forced upon them. This is all part of the closing of the Windows platform which while it has never been as open as Linux it has at least served as a decent intermediate compared to Apple.
The second problem I believe they have is the fragmentation of the interface, some people will gravitate towards the Metro UI while others (like myself) will prefer the traditional more powerful “desktop”. This means they will have to re-design their platforms and games to cater to both crowds. This (more-so in Valve’s case) will likely be a significant amount of man-hours due to the services and number of games offered through Steam that need to be re-designed to work in such an environment. Valve seem to be striving towards a smoother and more convenient experience with Steam and the constant jarring transition between the Metro and Desktop UIs when using chat and loading games does not align with that. I can’t really see Blizzard being too impacted under this situation but I do vaguely recall them working on some form of steam-like platform for their own games which might be what they’re getting antsy about.
There’s probably some other reason(s) as to why these two companies are publicly slamming Windows 8 and we could speculate till the cows come home but these seem to me the most likely reasons.
I didn’t really comment on my own experiences with Windows 8 in my previous comment but while it does have some very nice features (faster booting, more control over file copying/moving and a few other things) there’s much more that I greatly dislike about it.
Metro does not appeal to me in any way shape or form. I like my desktop clean and minimalistic, I have 1 icon on it and that’s the recycle bin and 6 gadgets on my second screen (clock to see the time when I’m in-game, Adam usage meter, GPU monitor, CPU monitor, network monitor and US/AU currency). Compared to my current desktop, Metro is not minimalistic, it’s just a huge cluster-f#@k of icons that serve me no purpose. When I first used it, I spent about half an hour trying to work out how to close programs in Metro and it was only by chance after another half an hour that I worked out how to shut my computer down. The removal of gadgets is just plain dumb, the Windows 7 implementation of them is brilliant, I don’t know why they think removing them is an improvement. Having a dual monitor setup is annoying with Metro which still doesn’t play nicely even in the RP, with the way I like to use MY computer. If I have that kind of trouble I feel sorry for the average user.
The fact that MS almost force you to create a Windows account when it’s first installed is annoying, sure it’s needed for the marketplace but I see it as a huge danger to people with children. Think of all the trouble parents have when their kids get hold of their phones and start hammering away at their credit card racking up bills into the hundreds and thousands buying apps and ingame purchaces when the credit card is saved into the phone. It’ll happen again as most people only bother with 1 user account on their PC for the whole family to use, people are going to end up with their kids accessing their marketplace account and inadvertently spend a ton of money on it without realising what they’re doing. I can almost hear the news reports now.
I mentioned earlier the jarring transition between the Metro UI and the Desktop sure you get used to it over time but it greatly breaks down fluidity of use with the OS with an abrupt and potentially frequent change in the interface. The only solution I have seen to this is making the desktop background similar to the Metro background. While a mildly effective solution, it takes away any sense of personalisation with the computer, a key aspect for making us feel more comfortable and at ease when using our (for some people often infuriating) machines.
As strange as many of you will likely think I am, I’m one of those odd people who do not use Facebook and still use the 2009 version of MSN (Live Messenger for you younger people) and am appalled by the latest version in Win 8. I do not want or need Facebook information forced upon me, if I wanted it, I’d go get it. Then there’s the Metro-ness of it, it’s just not overly usable in an environment where you have multiple applications running. Having the little rectangle popup over your screen just because someone replied with the infuriating responce “k”. Sure you can dock it to the side but to use it properly you need 2 separate “apps” open, one for the contact list and one for the messages. Even then they’re both cumbersome use frustrating to use, the contact list is a pain in the ass to scroll through when docked to the side and the messaging windows doesn’t easily allow you to open a new chat. Sure the whole setup is fine if all you’re doing is chatting to people but beyond that using it while doing other things requires more user input and commands than previous versions did.
The removal of Media Center from the Home version to become an addon for Pro makes absolutely ZERO sense. While my media PC uses XBMC, I do get a few customers at work who prefer the Media Center in Windows. While MS have explained why they removed it, it just defy’s reason as to why they would make you pay twice to access a particular feature. Although it looks like a good way of forcing desirable statistics for it so they have a “legitimate” reason to kill it completely. Putting it in the general user’s perspective, to get Windows MC on their Windows 8 which will in all probability come with Win 8 Home they will first have to pay for the upgrade to Win 8 Pro and then pay the additional on top of that to get MC. I don’t know what this will end up costing us here in Australia but I after having to explain this to various customers I’m pretty sure they just wont bother.
There’s more in all of this that I cant be bothered going into explaining but this is the way I see it all. Hopefully people will stop bagging those on the other side of the argument to themselves with the go-to/bandwagon responses a lot of people seem to be spouting.
TL:DR: There’s some valid reasons for Valve and Blizzards comments about Win 8 and I see more negatives than improvements in Win 8 and people need to stop spouting bandwagon responses.
They removed Media Center because of the incredibly small number of users that actually use it, which they have the stats for.
No one is forcing you to use Facebook or any other social media integration in Windows 8, it is entirely optional.
How often do you open the start menu, really. Is it that jarring, or are you just looking for something to bitch about. Beside there will be tonnes of 3rd party app launchers if you really can’t live with the switch from desktop.
You don’t need to create a windows account to install Windows 8, it is optional.
Maybe instead of accusing people of being on a bandwagon you should get off yours…
blackpatriot,
Clearly you haven’t read what i said, I understand why they removed it, it makes perfect sense, however forcing users to upgrade to pro to be able to have the ability to purchase it does not. I don’t know why Pro would be a requirement for Windows MC. It just looks to be a tactic to skew future statistics so they can discontinue it completely.
I never said I was being forced into facebook, I don’t however wish to have others facebook statuses forced upon me when I do not have facebook which appears to be the norm in the newer versions of MSN
I use the start menu quite frequently, it’s ideal for keeping my workspace free of icons taking up space and creating clutter. I’ve already tried numerous 3rd party start menu replacements (Classic Shell, ViStart, Start8, etc) and ViStart is about the only one that comes close which I might give another shot once 8 releases and it’s all set in stone. When you’re working on something for hours at a time, leaving your workspace can put a real stop to your workflow, think of it like writing an essay at your desk (old-school I know but the principal is universal), all of a sudden you’re forced to get up and answer a knock at the door. When you return it’s not always so easy to get back into the flow of things. It’s not so much the how it does it but the effect it has on productivity that irks me.
I’m aware you don’t need to create a windows account when installing 8, however it is the default setup method and some features are not available to you if you do not wish to have one. Calendar for example, why do I need a MS account to create something as simple as a Calendar for myself? Even Mail, I have to create a MS account just to open the mail program, I don’t use live or hotmail for my email so why do I need one just to open the program? Making a MS account is a required process to access even some of the basic features in Win 8, you just don’t realise what they are if you create one on install.
If you had read and understood what i wrote then you’d know that I don’t just speak for myself but the thousands of customers I have to serve and support at work who are going to have problems with learning to use and interact with Windows 8. You take your computer skills for granted till you have to guide someone over the phone on how to create an email address and they get lost when you say something as common as address bar.
In the end of it all I will be using Windows 8, it’s required for work, this is just the first time with an OS that I’ve had to find ways around so many “features” just to get things done more efficiently and ways to help people not so adept at adapting. It’s not just myself that sees things this way, all the tutors I’ve spoken to that deal with where I work have the same issues as I do with Win 8, it’s not designed for people less adept than ourselves.
In future try reading and understanding what people say and see things from a different point of view.
I’m thinking of just switching to Linux once I’m done with Windows 7. The more I use Ubuntu (I know it isn’t more for the majority) the more I support it because it is more efficient and allows me more freedom.
I like 7 a lot. I’m open to change. But I’ve stopped using messenger, don’t use hotmail, and just want an OS that lets me do things the way I want to do them and run the odd game. Ubuntu allows this. 7 does as well but there are diminishing returns as I become more empowered with Linux and disenfranchised with MS. :(
I work with academics, I know full well how difficult it can be for the computer illiterate to handle computers. That doesn’t change the fact that you implied that Windows 8 had all these features that were designed to cause you problems. They are not, they’re completely optional, and in a large scale deployment, or even small scale with the right tools, can be completely controlled at the discretion of the Domain Admins.
On top of that is the fact that a great many tech illiterate people will be introduced to Windows 8 in tablet form, where they can learn how to use the Metro interface before venturing into mixing Metro and desktop.
Is the transition from Metro to desktop jarring, yes. Is it a huge problem, no. Trust me, I’ll be dealing with some of the most computer illiterate people you’ll ever know, and almost all of them are world class experts in one field or another.